Home Page Forums General Discussion New BYU President on Gay Marriage: You Will Be Surprised

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  • #208562
    Anonymous
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    The following is LONG, but it is one of the best commentaries on gay marriage as a legal issue I have read. It is brilliant. It is from Kevin Worthen, announced as the next President of Brigham Young University. Don’t let the job title fool you. This is a brilliant legal commentary, and I think you will be surprised. It’s a little hard to read, since it’s a legal statement, but it’s worth reading. The last paragraph, especially, is spot-on. (I have bolded a few things I want to emphasize.)

    Quote:

    “While these views of marriage are not necessarily mutually exclusive, one’s views on the proper definition depends, to a considerable extent, on one’s view as to which of these functions should be the primary function of marriage. Thus, opponents of same-sex marriage tend to emphasize the societal perpetuation function of marriage – with its focus on responsible procreation – and on the sexual norm reinforcement function of marriage – with its focus on the proper form of sexual relations. Proponents of same-sex marriage tend to emphasize the individual fulfillment function of marriage – with its focus on individual benefits from long-term intimate relationships. Proponents of domestic partnership laws tend to emphasize the distributional function of marriage – with its focus on benefits.

    The important point is that one cannot resolve the issue of which of these functions to prefer, how much weight to give them, or even how essential marriage is to the realization of the goal underlying the interest on value-neutral grounds. For example, one cannot decide how essential marriage is to responsible child rearing unless one first determines what values “children need.” This in turn requires some consideration of what values society favors. Similarly, one cannot decide how well marriage reinforces proper sexual norms unless one first determines what sexual norms are proper, an extremely value-contingent decision. Nor can one decide how essential marriage is to individual well-being unless one first determines what constitutes individual well-being and fulfillment, a determination which requires a prior decision as to what values society favors. Finally, and most importantly, one cannot begin to balance the various factors without further making the value choice as to which of the competing values (to the extent they conflict) should be preferred.

    In short, when government defines marriage it necessarily determines, or reflects, to a considerable extent, its moral vision.

    In a general sense, the classic liberal view – under which government’s role was not to determine what was good for individuals or society, but rather to facilitate the process by which private individuals and private groups determine those issues for themselves – prevailed in the federal constitution. The focus of that document is on process, specifically on the structures and processes through which governmental decisions are made at a national level. Thus, the federal constitution is, by and large, devoid of any express value or moral judgments. Instead, it reflects the view expressed in a central provision of the Declaration of Independence that “governments are instituted among men,” not to determine for its citizens what constitutes happiness, but to “secure” their right to pursue that goal according to their own vision of it.

    #281720
    Anonymous
    Guest

    So is he saying that the question of the rightness of gay marriage is objectively unanswerable because of competing views on the function of marriage? He didn’t take a position for or against gay marriage – he seems to say that we need to decide. Is he advocating popular vote?

    #281721
    Anonymous
    Guest

    I lean more politically conservative/libertarian, and I am not a supporter of same-sex marriage, so I actually don’t think this is surprising from a conservative point of view. What he is basically saying is that progressives misunderstand the purpose of the Constitution, because they think its purpose is to promote a value system. His point about the Constitution being devoid of value judgments is a fundamental tenet of conservatism, which holds that the purpose of the Constitution is to protect the people from the tyranny of central government. Sorry!

    #281722
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Obviously, a very carefully worded piece of prose. It seems like a way of stating “the Constitution says nothing about marriage, but asserts that we’re free to determine what ‘marriage’ and ‘moral values about marriage’ mean”.

    As for conservative or liberal, he clearly takes a classical liberal stance (not at all a modern liberal stance), which is to say he appears to believe that people should make their own value judgements, and the Constitution is the means by which those value judgements are to be realized. In other words, the Constitution is supposed to be amoral, or neutral as to legal outcome while establishing a process of law.

    I’m not a lawyer, though, and liable to be wrong.

    #281723
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Fwiw, I think it’s brilliant specifically because it states clearly that there isn’t an objective, “one true way” to approach gay marriage (really, marriage, in totality) in the context of the US Constitution. He lays out competing ways to defend three options (no gay marriage, gay marriage and civil unions) and points out that each option is legitimate from a philosophical constitutional perspective. It cuts out the heart of the arguments that say this is a simple issue resolvable by an appeal to the Constitution, since the Constitution wasn’t meant to dictate a universal answer to questions like this.

    The last paragraph, especially, says that the Constitution can’t answer the question definitively in this case – so, in practical terms, marriage becomes an issue that must be decided by the society itself, based on what it collectively values the most.

    I agree with that view, largely because I think just about every person supports some degree of restriction on what arrangements should be given official sanction under the term “marriage”. (incest and minors being perhaps the best examples) The issue isn’t if we draw lines; the issue is where we draw them. Thus, even though this argument can be used by either side, it can’t be used with any degree of legitimately by either side as proving their position.

    #281724
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Curtis wrote:

    The last paragraph, especially, says that the Constitution can’t answer the question definitively in this case – so, in practical terms, marriage becomes an issue that must be decided by the society itself, based on what it collectively values the most.


    I’ve seen lots of facebook posts that try to answer the gay marriage question by making an appeal to the Constitution. If I understand you right, you’re saying that this appeal is unable to answer the question. I side towards that approach – and I think that answer is sort of obvious anyway, because if it was clearly in the Constitution, there would be no debate. I used to say that the Constitution is something that we made up to try to live together peacefully, and that all decisions like these are ultimately made by society. And we can made those decisions by trying to appeal to a founding document (like the Constitution) or just making our own decision.

    #281725
    Anonymous
    Guest

    It also cuts out the heart of the idea that we’ve always talked about marriage in the same way, even though our Mormon history ought to illustrate the absurdity of that position.

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