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Excellent article from my favorite Utah columnist. http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/lifestyle/57676442-80/church-german-uchtdorf-kirby.html.csp The money quote:
Quote:“I don’t want to be something else. I’m comfortable being where I am. That doesn’t sit well with people both in the church and out who arrogantly presume to tell me what I should do. Fortunately for me, the answer is the same for both groups. All else aside, I’d probably stay Mormon just to piss you off.”
cwald, I thought of you when I read the last sentence.
:thumbup: Haha. Yeah. My two rules of being a mormon.
1. I will not resign. That is giving the church the easy way out.
2. I will not acknowledge or attend any kind of church discipline council. If the church doesn’t want me, they can kick me out. Fine by me. Just don’t expect me to be at the meeting when it happens.
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Great Kirby article. While I admired his moxy for staying in just to piss people off, to me, this was the money quote: “Mountain Meadows didn’t surprise me. I already knew a few Mormons so steeped in church obedience that with the right prompting they’d probably do it again.” So true! cwald wrote:
If the church doesn’t want me, they can kick me out.k
Yeah, that’s how I feel too. From private conversations with my bishop and stake president, I get the sense that the Church wants me. As long as I don’t go spreading anti-Mormon propaganda/historical facts, the Church is fine with me, and I’m fine with the Church. The way I look at it, if they kick me out, they should also kick out John Dehlin, Hans Mattson, Tom Philips, Joanna Brooks and other people like that.
Apparently Kirby feels much the same as I do – those historical things don’t bother me, either, because they don’t (and never have) affected me. I wasn’t converted on history, I was converted spiritually. Those are the things that bother me, but not enough to not be LDS because there is much truth mixed in there with the teachings of men. DarkJedi wrote:I wasn’t converted on history, I was converted spiritually.
Huh, lost sight of that one. Thanks for the reminder.
telemoonka wrote:As long as I don’t go spreading anti-Mormon propaganda/historical facts
Does that “/” mean “or” or “aka”?
telemoonka wrote:The way I look at it, if they kick me out, they should also kick out John Dehlin, Hans Mattson, Tom Philips, Joanna Brooks and other people like that.
The September Six? Try the March Million.
hawkgrrrl wrote:Great Kirby article. While I admired his moxy for staying in just to piss people off, to me, this was the money quote: “Mountain Meadows didn’t surprise me. I already knew a few Mormons so steeped in church obedience that with the right prompting they’d probably do it again.” So true!
Sad but also true. I like that he takes it a step furhter: “As I saw it, my whole job was to make sure I wasn’t one of them.”
DarkJedi wrote:Apparently Kirby feels much the same as I do – those historical things don’t bother me, either, because they don’t (and never have) affected me. I wasn’t converted on history, I was converted spiritually. Those are the things that bother me, but not enough to not be LDS because there is much truth mixed in there with the teachings of men.
Ya, that sums it up for me. The historical things done bother me because I don’t even ask or think along the lines of“True or false”. Rather the question I ask is “what can I take away from this situation or teaching to help me or better the world”. It’s not a true or false or belief or no belief question.
I done live life in that context. It’s what helps me to do good works and others. Obedience, gods will, what does X-person think about x passage, duty, are not questions I ask myself or think about. For me it’s all about charity(love and good fruit).
People can feel free to phrase it in a context they can relate to. Just don’t EXPECT other to frame it or care about in the context of others. They don’t have their mind, they can’t think in that way.
I’m not a lawyer, I’m bit because I don’t think legalistically in the slightest, I just don’t think in the law of the land or gospel.
I think in love and good fruit and if it happens to be an agreement with either law, so much the better.
But the laws, doctrine or technical details don’t affect my thought process. It’s charity.
In that way I love being LDS. Moroni has the best definition of love I have read in a scriptural document.
I can be a great LDS even if I don’t let it define me or my identity.
I am a Buddhist, a Jew, Hindu, Christian, I’m culturally American, Japanese, Chinese, Thai, African, Canadian, Australian, Russian, I bling to nobody and belong to everybody. I am also a Mormon.
These things don’t define me. Yet they all do.
I’m happy to be LDS as well as others as long as they dont try to define me or my identity.
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