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  • #208596
    Anonymous
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    I have noticed over the years that the obvious flaws in our church (boring meetings, extreme culture, poor quality — at least in some wards) is something you can’t talk about with the general membership. Most people you talk to will respond with a Pollyanna type of positivity about how experience in the church is beautiful, wonderful, without any real acknowledgement of the ways in which we can improve.

    Have you noticed this, and how do you deal with it? I personally find it frustrating.

    #282141
    Anonymous
    Guest

    As a pessimist (or realist, depending on your point of view) I find Pollyanaism annoying anyway. There is a silver lining to being a pessimist, however – I am always either being proven correct or being pleasantly surprised. ;)

    #282142
    Anonymous
    Guest

    There is also a significant advantage to optimism. It helps people to step forward in their lives boldly.

    #282143
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Pollyana-ism works for people who need that type of outlook. It can be a powerful orientation for a lot of people. It doesn’t work for someone like me who has an analytical mind by nature, but I don’t begrudge the protective nature of it and the benefit it can be to lots of people.

    Having said that, I talk about disappointing aspects of our church culture all the time – but I’ve learned how to frame it constructively, in a way that most people can accept.

    It’s kind of funny that you would mention boring meetings in your list, since the post yesterday on my personal blog was titled “Boredom and Sacrament Meeting”. (http://thingsofmysoul.blogspot.com/2014/03/boredom-and-sacrament-meeting.html)

    #282144
    Anonymous
    Guest

    I always try to find the good takeaways, it’s what keeps me moving. It may take me several years to find the positives but I eventually find them.

    It really depends on who you talk to. Some members view any criticism as:

    Matthew 12:30 wrote:

    He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.

    In fact I’ve seen that verse quoted quite often in the whole women and the priesthood discussion. Any criticism, even constructive criticism, can be seen as dissent in certain eyes. In some cases criticism is dissent, but not all cases.

    Bottom line, don’t sweat it, it’s all good. ;)

    #282145
    Anonymous
    Guest

    I see this a lot. Even as destructive things or systems took their hold right in front of your eyes, the glossy eyes poured forth about how wonderful it was, even when the person right in front of you was suffering from the system in fear or tears.

    That’s the part that bothers me. One of my theorist who happened to be a escapee from North Korea had a lot to say about this type of system of Pollyanna-ism.

    We went through the pros and cons and the outright danger it can take when practiced or I statuses widely on a system instead of individual level.

    It had slipped my mind recently until stake leadership conference about indoctrinating the youth at a earlier age to help stem the tide leaving the church when they are older as part if hastening the work.

    Tightly controlled Dissemination of information along with Pollyanna-ism at a earlier age in a stringer dose to help stem the losses later in their development.

    Primarily why I don’t want to have a kid right now.

    In a personal individual level it can be helpful. But a system wide level it does more harm them good by making even questionable things seem good or great.

    For my part I enjoy positivity, it’s part of the reason I married my wife.

    But I steer clear of any person, organization, or system that frowns on talking about things that could use improvement in a positive matter or tries to keep such talk in the down low.

    Part if the reason I don’t blame my family or people I. My old ward is because they really believed they were doing what was right because in Pollyanna-ism. It’s all great, even when it’s not. After all the ends justifies the means. It will look great in the end and everything will turn out ok, even if it doesn’t , even if it currently isn’t.

    More importantly, even if the data shows that it doesn’t or will not, it just will, because that’s the way it works. The way it’s designed to work.

    #282146
    Anonymous
    Guest

    You have to take this from the other angle. A lot of church leaders are put upon, and are desperate to keep everything together. Also we have to have a degree of necessary boredom, which is called administration.

    It can go the other way. There is a group, you probably know of ex-Mormons who talk about the church in almost entirely negative terms. They are the opposite – they’re like the anti-Pollyannas… they don’t see the good stuff anymore. If there was no good stuff the church would be unbearable.

    Can we at least describe it as a Curate’s egg?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curate%27s_egg

    #282147
    Anonymous
    Guest

    SamBee wrote:

    You have to take this from the other angle. A lot of church leaders are put upon, and are desperate to keep everything together. Also we have to have a degree of necessary boredom, which is called administration.

    It can go the other way. There is a group, you probably know of ex-Mormons who talk about the church in almost entirely negative terms. They are the opposite – they’re like the anti-Pollyannas… they don’t see the good stuff anymore. If there was no good stuff the church would be unbearable.

    Can we at least describe it as a Curate’s egg?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curate%27s_egg


    The thing is one is not better then the other on a system level.

    We can have Pollyanna-ism but in doing so we have no right to talk about EX-mos as if it is better.they are both equally helpful and equally destructive.

    Pollyanna-ism is different from being positive. It’s seeing everything from a manufactured tinted glass, just like anger.

    One does not tint more then the other, each is equally helpful and destructive.

    There are quite a few studies to show this.

    I prefer the middle in as much as humanly possible. Statistically it is the safest and less dangerous place then either.

    #282148
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Please note I wasn’t talking about exmormons in general. For over ten years, I think I fell, more or less, into that category, and didn’t interact with the church much at all, if at all. (Other than the occasional missionary)

    I’m talking about a particular website, which I think presents the opposite of Pollyanna-ism. When I was on my way out, I found some of the material on there relentlessly negative, as some members are relentlessly Pollyanna-ish

    The truth is that the church is a mixture of good and bad stuff. That’s

    why people stay, and why people leave, depending on their experiences

    and view of it.

    #282149
    Anonymous
    Guest

    I read over Curtis’ blog …two parts struck me — that if you’re not spiritually fed, you should figure out some way to get spiritually fed. For me, that means reading during meetings.

    This part also struck me:

    Quote:


    Having said that, if you are bored on a regular basis, you might need to focus on your own spirituality in some way. If you are bored during a sincere attempt by a non-professional congregant to share his or her heart in a talk that was prepared with fear and trembling and who simply suffers from anxiety, lack of experience and/or poor public speaking skills – I’d say, maybe, you aren’t charitable enough.

    Not sure if I agree with the latter part of this though. I think we get overdosed on “the supportive member” role. These kinds of inexperienced presentations occur regularly, each week over decades and a lifetime. I do wish the church felt some onus to measure the quality of their meetings and to put systems in place that promote quality. We have the means, the manpower, and certainly the need. But the prevailing attitude is that we need to just suck it up…and some would imply that if we get bored of it after several decades, we are not being Christlike….I disagree — I think continuous improvement, and producing good quality work where possible, and within our means, is very much part of being a Christlike leader or administrator as the leader most certaly would want his or her sheep to be fed well.

    #282150
    Anonymous
    Guest

    A few thoughts:

    – I have come to believe that there is no benefit in criticizing why other people are the way they are. I don’t hang around a lot of negative people. I don’t hang around blindly-obedient people. I don’t hang around people who yell. But it is their life and as long as they aren’t trying to press their views on me, I have no problem.

    – I would rather be around optimistic people than pessimistic people. This is true at home, at work, at church, at play. I would rather be around excessively optimistic people, even if they are unrealisitcally optimistic, than to be around excessively pessimistic people.

    – “pollyana-ism” is a disparaging term. I don’t know a single person that would describe themselves as a pollyana-ist. I don’t really like to use disparaging terms related to how other people choose to live their lives… in part, because I don’t want them using disparaging terms about me.

    #282151
    Anonymous
    Guest

    SD, my post said that there are systemic reasons why church can be boring that are NOT the fault of the congregants. I made that point crystal clear and explicit in the final paragraph. I also said I gave my friend the advice I did because I knew her well enough to give that particular advice.

    My point remains, however, that if someone is bored on a continual, regular basis, ultimately that person has to find a way not to be bored – and there are multiple ways to do that, ranging from not attending anymore to bringing something else that will engage them whenever boredom threatens.

    Complaining about something can be productive and is important – for a while. If that doesn’t work, continuing to complain only adds to frustration. Thus, extended boredom is better handled by finding a way to change it than by enduring its continuation.

    #282152
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Curtis wrote:


    Complaining about something can be productive and is important – for a while. If that doesn’t work, continuing to complain only adds to frustration. Thus, extended boredom is better handled by finding a way to change it than by enduring its continuation.

    Indeed. Great advise in any situation.

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