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April 1, 2014 at 9:48 am #208657
Anonymous
GuestHello! I am an European member – non-native English speaker (so, I’m sorry for the mistakes!) , third generation in the church. I served a mission, temple married, I’ve two wonderful children, and I’m serving in the Bishopric. I’m still struggling to understand who I was three months ago and who I am now. Some of my friends had left the church a few years ago for issues related to doctrine. However, there were also other problems, and I had always thought that their decision only served to cover other issues. My answer to their burning questions was: FAIR has the answer! In January, a close friend asked me: “why do you think most people leave the Church.” I told him: “They have personal problems o troubles with other members.” He told me: “No, they have problems with the doctrine. ” I was skeptic. He recommended me to watch the video on youtube “Top 5 Myths and Truths About Why Committed Mormons Leave the Church”. I liked the video, but I still could not see beyond. However, I decided to visit the forum sponsored by the video “staylds.com.” It was the end. It was the beginning. My FC began reading the discussion about the church essay “Race and the priesthood.” It was like a punch in the stomach. I was angry about the decisions of the past and the present. Where was the revelation for a century and a half? What relationship existed between revelation and political decisions. I talked about the argument with some friends, but no one had sufficient answers. Wasn’t the Church perfect? How did they make those decisions? I was also surprised that the essay was simply tucked away in the alphabetical list of Gospel Topics. Why? If I were a black member I’d like to know I’m not a son of Cain, or that I haven’t been less valiant in the premortal life. Don’t you? Does the Church fear the man more then God? I realized that the answers of FAIR were no longer sufficient for me. I started studying hours and hours every day. Staylds helped me, gave me hope; Mormonthink opened my eyes. The more I read, the more I hurt, the more I felt uncomfortable. Many things around me began to have a different color: words, ideas, people, etc.. These are some of the keywords of my crisis: Fanny Alger, Helen Kimball, Mountain Meadow, mind programming, second anointing, B. H. Roberts, Masonry, Lying for the Lord.
I felt completely lost, teased. How was that possible? Satan was deceiving me? I knew to be honest. Was the Church completely honest? There were too many lies, too many inconsistencies. Why? I was grateful to have learned to love the Gospel through the Church, but I couldn’t lie to myself.
Luckily my wife is understanding me. She knows that I am acting in good faith. I asked the stake president to be released because I cannot serve in the bishopric having so many doubts. He understood. He is close to me. My bishop is trying to understand me. It is not easy for him. We’ve had so many spiritual experiences together. I have not been specific with him about my doubts. I do not want to disturb him. He is worried about what members will say and think about my release. In my ward there are about 90 members. We are a big family. Everyone wants to know, but I do not want them to know, because they would not understand. They would think that I want to cover some sin or that I’m hiding something else, that I will lose, that I’ll become unhappy, or something like that. Perhaps, they would be waiting for me to fall in order to justify my choice. It would be very difficult to accept that I can be happy. It would create a dissonance difficult to justify. I used to think the same way. Forgive me!
Thanks to this forum I know I’m not alone. There is a life beyond the FC. Thank you for all your stories. I don’t know you personally, we have a different mother tongue, we are thousands of miles away, but I feel you really close.
In my darkest days these scriptures really helped me:
Luke 12: 1-7 … Beware ye of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy. For there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; neither hid, that shall not be known. Therefore whatsoever ye have spoken in darkness shall be heard in the light; and that which ye have spoken in the ear in closets shall be proclaimed upon the housetops. And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him. Are not five sparrows sold for two farthings, and not one of them is forgotten before God? But even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear not therefore: ye are of more value than many sparrows.Galatians 5:12 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.I trust in the Lord. I can feel Him close. I want to try to continue to attend the church because it has given so much to my life and my family. Growing up Mormon in a Catholic country is not easy. You are always different, strange. But all this has helped me to create a close relationship with the Lord.
In these weeks I gave a talk and a lesson, I have attended bishopric meetings. I have felt many good emotions. Was it the spirit? In the bishopric so many times we received the same answers. Was it “group revelation”? Do you think that the Lord can inspire and give revelation to a group of people (in this case the Bishopric) acting in good faith, following the right principles, even if they belong to different faiths?
I have so many questions…. At this time I think that the church is a good organization to learn about the gospel and live in a healthy way.
I do not know where I’m going, but maybe losing myself I’m finding my way. I hope so.
April 1, 2014 at 3:14 pm #282936Anonymous
GuestRalph, I loved your introduction. I’m sorry you are going through this, and I wish you well in finding your way. You are among friends here. I look forward to hearing your perspective.
Welcome.
April 1, 2014 at 3:19 pm #282937Anonymous
GuestWelcome Ralph. Given your circumstances it sounds like you are maintaining a very healthy attitude. Curiosity has the best of me. If you don’t mind me asking, what’s your native language?
April 1, 2014 at 3:29 pm #282938Anonymous
GuestWelcome, it sounds like you will fit in well here. Many of us have been where you are and many are where you are now. You are fortunate to have those who understand near you. I hope that we can help you and I hope you contribute to help others here. April 1, 2014 at 4:54 pm #282939Anonymous
GuestHi wreck it Ralph! sorry, but the picture is an adept description for what seems to be your situation.
Ralph discovers life in his situation isn’t what it’s cracked up to be.
He goes the other way looking for inspiration. What he finds is he is an imperfect human who learns to make the best he can with what he is given(life and personality). Learning to be comfortable in your own skin without absolute answers out there he was looking for. He finds there is non but learns to be comfortable with it on his own skin.
Welcome! What ever happens during the process of learning to be comfortable in your own skin without absolutes, be kind, be patient, be loving and charitable to others and to yourself. Likewise don’t let others tell you you are less then ideal, less then them but realize(it looks like you have) that you are not more then them either.
We all deserve respect and compassion while we try to figure out who we are(common when one persons “identity” becomes attached to something outside of yourself) you lose a sense of self because you loss a since of identity.
What takes time to learn is that who you are isn’t your job, isn’t your family, isn’t the church, your identity is who you are independently of other or other things. They are all a part of you, even an important part. But they are not you. As Ralph learns his identity isn’t the game or his role but is just part of him and learns to umbrage himself and parts of him.
“All I can be, is the best me I can be”. Learning to in in-brace that is something that can’t be told, it’s learning and discovering what that is for yourself.
April 1, 2014 at 5:35 pm #282940Anonymous
GuestNo time now, but welcome! April 1, 2014 at 8:38 pm #282941Anonymous
GuestWelcome Ralph. This is a good place to sort it all out. You’re among friends.
April 1, 2014 at 8:58 pm #282942Anonymous
GuestThanks for the welcome. nibbler wrote:If you don’t mind me asking, what’s your native language?
Italian.
Forgotten_Charity wrote:Hi wreck it Ralph!
sorry, but the picture is an adept description for what seems to be your situation.
Ralph discovers life in his situation isn’t what it’s cracked up to be.
He goes the other way looking for inspiration. What he finds is he is an imperfect human who learns to make the best he can with what he is given(life and personality). Learning to be comfortable in your own skin without absolute answers out there he was looking for. He finds there is non but learns to be comfortable with it on his own skin.
It’s true! I feel just like that, but to be completely honest a few months ago I was just like fix-it Felix :”There is an answer to everything”, “everything will be okay”.
Forgotten_Charity wrote:
Welcome! What ever happens during the process of learning to be comfortable in your own skin without absolutes, be kind, be patient, be loving and charitable to others and to yourself. Likewise don’t let others tell you you are less then ideal, less then them but realize(it looks like you have) that you are not more then them either.We all deserve respect and compassion while we try to figure out who we are(common when one persons “identity” becomes attached to something outside of yourself) you lose a sense of self because you loss a since of identity.
What takes time to learn is that who you are isn’t your job, isn’t your family, isn’t the church, your identity is who you are independently of other or other things. They are all a part of you, even an important part. But they are not you. As Ralph learns his identity isn’t the game or his role but is just part of him and learns to umbrage himself and parts of him.
“All I can be, is the best me I can be”. Learning to in in-brace that is something that can’t be told, it’s learning and discovering what that is for yourself.
Thank you for your words. I know it will not be easy to accept the disappointment of others. I can only imagine the face of my mother when I’ll explain something. Help! But first of all I want to be honest with myself. As you said, we are more than our jobs, our family, our church. Maybe not making these decisions, I could lose part of my identity, wearing the clothes of a person that I’m not anymore.
April 1, 2014 at 9:34 pm #282943Anonymous
GuestBenvenuto Ralph! Glad you are finding some peace here. Thanks for introducing yourself. Hope we can learn from each other and be a support. That must have taken some serious courage to ask to be Released from the Bishopric. I was in the RS presidency when my FC hit and I asked to be released. It was months before people quit asking me why I was released. I don’t envy your situation, but it sounds like you have a clear head and wonderful heart.
Quote:Ralph wrote:In these weeks I gave a talk and a lesson, I have attended bishopric meetings. I have felt many good emotions. Was it the spirit? In the bishopric so many times we received the same answers. Was it “group revelation”? Do you think that the Lord can inspire and give revelation to a group of people (in this case the Bishopric) acting in good faith, following the right principles, even if they belong to different faiths?
I can’t even pretend to KNOW the answer to your questions regarding the Lord inspiring and giving answers. My favorite quote recently is that “All I know is I know nothing.” I am not even sure what experiences you had and what led you to feel the Spirit.
What I do I do feel or believe is that everyone, even in the same religion have different “faiths”. I talk so much more with my husband regarding spiritual beliefs than we ever have in 15 years of marriage. What I am amazed to find out is how differently we saw and believed things. I just assumed he believed that way I did and vice versa, yet God was able to communicate to us in our the way that met our needs.
April 1, 2014 at 11:21 pm #282944Anonymous
GuestWelcome Ralph, We usually advise people to go slow. This is because things are changing so fast right now that you are still trying to figure out what you believe. Unfortunately some people will forever label you as untrustworthy if they know too much.
On the other hand, we also talk about living in balance and sustainability with the church through setting boundaries. The demands on you as a member of the bishopric may be too great for you to continue for long.
Like so many other things in life – both of these general principles are true – but you get to decide which is more applicable and pertinent to your current situation.
I hope we can continue to be of help and hear more from you.
April 2, 2014 at 2:20 am #282945Anonymous
GuestRalph wrote:It was the end. It was the beginning.
Hi, Ralph – Glad you’re here and I look forward to hearing more from you. Everyone here knows a little about the stress you’re feeling, but amidst it all there is a sense of excitement as I begin again. I make a conscious effort, too, to acknowledge and be thankful for the good that’s come into my life as a member of the church. Good luck. People here are very helpful.
April 2, 2014 at 5:20 am #282946Anonymous
GuestWelcome brother. It is a tough spot that you are in. I have seen it happen time after time and all that you can do is be honest with yourself. If your life at church feels like a lie then to continue in your calling will only make you feel sicker and more stressed. I tried to for over a year and I would stress every Saturday night and was really loosing a lot of sleep. I tried to do my calling in a way that was comfortable for me but too many people complained and I was called into the SP office too many times and was released. I was mad but also relieved. StayLDS was a big help for me and there are many who understand where you are at. I don’t post as often as I used to because after a while the pain decreases and the confidence in my new thinking has increased. Please keep us updated. April 2, 2014 at 6:44 am #282947Anonymous
GuestWe feel your pain. April 2, 2014 at 3:46 pm #282948Anonymous
GuestWelcome Ralph. As I was reading your intro I thought of the recent interview of our friend Bill Reel with FAIR: http://blog.fairmormon.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/REELLYNCHFINAL.mp3 I think they make several very good points and it is the best podcast that I have heard so far — for the goal of sharing what a faith crisis is with faithful members.
If I was in your position and I felt a need to help someone in the church know what I was going through I would share this podcast. I would also need to not get hung up on the discussion of how the church is ultimately true – for a long time I was not prepared to digest that type of language. You have to learn to let the things slide that you don’t relate to.
Best wishes!
April 2, 2014 at 8:09 pm #282949Anonymous
GuestOrson wrote:Welcome Ralph. As I was reading your intro I thought of the recent interview of our friend Bill Reel with FAIR:
http://blog.fairmormon.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/REELLYNCHFINAL.mp3 I think they make several very good points and it is the best podcast that I have heard so far — for the goal of sharing what a faith crisis is with faithful members.
If I was in your position and I felt a need to help someone in the church know what I was going through I would share this podcast. I would also need to not get hung up on the discussion of how the church is ultimately true – for a long time I was not prepared to digest that type of language. You have to learn to let the things slide that you don’t relate to.
Best wishes!
Thanks for the link. It made me think a lot. I felt very close to the experience of Bill Reel. I really respect his decision. I do not know where my choice will lead me. I would really like to still believe in certain things, but I do not want to believe simply because I want to believe. Last Sunday I had three hours very enriching, and even spiritual. But the question to which I do not have an answer, is whether it depends on the Church, or on the portion of righteousness and truth that the Church has, or by the universal principles that are taught.
I do not know if I’m running too fast. it is true that I made the decision in only three months, but I had read many things during these years. In recent weeks I have just given a different meaning to so many things. There was a moment where I began to see everything from a different point of view. You risk to lose your balance. To stand I’m trying to listen to my heart, my mind and my spirit. You know it is not easy.
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