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April 4, 2014 at 1:34 am #208666
Anonymous
GuestI left the Church 8 years ago after 37 years as a member. I could no longer justify the discrepancies in Church history and things like DNA, archeology and Brigham Young (Mountain Meadow Massacre and Blacks and the Priesthood). After determining that the Church was not actually divine in origin, all of religion crumbled along with it. I no longer believe that any manmade religion has all truth. I believe there is some truth found in most places. My own theories coincide mostly with what I was raised with in the Church. Some of it is so logical that I have to believe it (pre-earth life, a Plan [not a plan of salvation, but a plan for eternal progression], and an accounting of what we have done while on the Earth. I’m bipolar and gay, neither of which has made life easy. I served a mission, married in the temple and had three great kids and now have one grandson and another on the way. I left my wife because I could no longer pretend I wasn’t gay (even though I acted on it only a couple of times during our married years, both the effects of a bipolar manic episode), and that because of the bipolar disorder, I am not able to control what happens during a manic or mixed episode. When medication fails to keep the bipolar in check, all hell breaks loose.
I’m trying to find enough information outside of Faith and Prayer and Hope and all of the standard answers to one who questions the Church’s validity. I truly want to come back. I miss the people, they are MY people, my culture. I miss having the Church in common with my ex-wife and daughters (my son left long before I did and is happy with that). I would re-join only for the social aspect, but I’m not able to lie. I can’t tell a Bishop that I know the Church is true and that Christ is the Redeemer if I don’t actually believe it. And, as of now, I do not believe those things. The biggest hurdle, and the one that would make all the rest at least plausible, is the divinity of Jesus. There is so much evidence to refute the fact, and knowing the method by which the Bible was written makes that almost a worthless document. The Book of Mormon seems to have no basis in fact, and was probably a re-write of Spaulding’s manuscript.
There is so little of any type of history that can be taken at face value. And, to make things worse, I’m a conspiracy theorist. I don’t believe man has ever been to the moon; I believe a man with the initials D.C. masterminded 911; I believe a man with the initials L.J. masterminded the JFK assassination, etc., etc., etc. So, not believing most of history as it has been presented to us makes me even more skeptical about the origins of the Church.
Probably the one statement that had the most negative affect on me was when Gordon B. Hinckley, in an interview stated regarding the axiom “As man is God once was, and God is man may become”, that “I don’t know that we teach it. It’s a couplet more than anything else.” A couplet? Really? I was taught that since I was a child.
These hurdles are nearly insurmountable. I can’t simply accept things on Faith, knowing how many lies mankind has told throughout history. All other churches are based on lies, and Joseph Smith and Sidney Rigdon were no Saints (pardon the expression). The Church became what it is today largely through the influence of the 30+ years Brigham Young was President. We know he did some shady things.
So, where am I to turn? I can’t unlearn what I’ve learned, and to simply accept things on Faith alone will not be sufficient. There needs to be a certain amount of tangible history that is believable to support the idea of having Faith in the rest of the story.
I have an open mind, and I continue to research and explore all avenues to find what will satisfy me that there is a Christ and that “A” church, this Church, is true. I am not finding answers.
Sorry to take up so much space. I’m not comfortable in the secular world, and no longer comfortable in the religious world. That makes it very uncomfortable to even live. I need to find some answers. I read General Conference talks and they are all very nice, but nothing within them tells me the Church is true. I’ve had a couple of experiences that could be described as miracles, but they, too, can be explained away by my state of mind at the time.
If anyone has anything that they can offer with substance, not just “pray, have faith, read your scriptures, obey the commandments…”, then I welcome your input. How do I reconcile the obvious flaws in order to accept the things that we are supposed to believe are true?
April 4, 2014 at 6:09 am #283035Anonymous
GuestHi Seeking, you ask many good questions, I don’t have time to try to respond to most but this part especially stood out to me: SeekingAfterTruth wrote:There is so little of any type of history that can be taken at face value. And, to make things worse, I’m a conspiracy theorist. I don’t believe man has ever been to the moon; I believe a man with the initials D.C. masterminded 911; I believe a man with the initials L.J. masterminded the JFK assassination, etc., etc., etc. So, not believing most of history as it has been presented to us makes me even more skeptical about the origins of the Church.
I watched a program that briefly covered several of those conspiracy theories, it presented an opinion or view that may be helpful for you to ask yourself about and reflect on. Not to say this is the way it is, but it may provide food for thought. It mentioned that these theories offer “simple” explanations with solid answers, something that people who crave certainty can cling to — and even if the idea of conspiracies are upsetting, the feeling of “now I know” that the theories offer can be very attractive to some personalities.
We often discuss here how a strategy to stay LDS is often to embrace the complexity and learn to let go of the desire for simple answers. Real life is rarely simple. Truth can come from many different directions at the same time, it can be horrifying – and it can be beautiful.
For what it’s worth anyway, just a few thoughts I had. Welcome!
April 4, 2014 at 10:27 am #283036Anonymous
GuestI can relate to much of what you said, I haven’t been to church in 10 years and I share some of your doctrinal questions. There is a way, but you need to find it, but others can help you. That’s why I fond this site very helpful. Before coming here last summer I also couldn’t have answered some of those questions with honesty. Now, I believe that except for church attendance, and I am working on that, I believe I cold answer all of the temple r questions appropriately. There was a time when I threw everything out and became agnostic and very close to being atheist. Atheists have no use for a Savior, for instance, and I was not sure of the role of a Savior, either. I’m still not totally, but I do believe there is God, and from the “making sense” point of view (That’s one of the things I liked about the church – it made sense) the plan makes some sense. Therefore, there would be a need for a savior to redeem us from our sins. I believe that redemption is much more general than the general LDS view of Jesus paying for individual sins, but I do believe in Christ’s role as Savior and Redeemer (temple recommend question). If you’re looking for advice, here’s mine: Browse the forums and find topics of interest to you. Also, focus on what you do believe and work from there. Many of us here refer to a rebuilding of our faith, and that rebuilding begins with a foundation of what we believe individually.
Good luck, and welcome to the forum.
April 5, 2014 at 3:36 am #283037Anonymous
GuestFirst, thanks for your responses. I’ve been reading some other introductions and it seems I’m not the only one with the same questions and concerns over historical accuracy and gospel truth. My son-in-law tells me not to worry about the historical inaccuracies, but to focus on the Gospel, the Doctrine. I don’t see how to separate the two, but I am learning. I’m about to read “Mormon Doctrine: What’s Official and What Isn’t?” I have scanned it briefly and it gives me some hope. I take things too literally, I admit that. I have a hard time with conceptual thinking when it comes to the Church. When it comes to God and our lives on this planet, I can easily conceptualize because I haven’t proclaimed anything but my opinion and feelings. When the Church says “this is the way it is” I feel like that’s the way it should be. When it isn’t, I get rattled. I’m working on it, though. If the Church really is the way back, the right way back to where we came from, then I must be a part of it. If it isn’t the only way back, then it doesn’t matter to me. That’s what I need to re-discover. Is it the only way back?
April 5, 2014 at 12:14 pm #283038Anonymous
GuestSeekingAfterTruth wrote:First, thanks for your responses. I’ve been reading some other introductions and it seems I’m not the only one with the same questions and concerns over historical accuracy and gospel truth. My son-in-law tells me not to worry about the historical inaccuracies, but to focus on the Gospel, the Doctrine. I don’t see how to separate the two, but I am learning. I’m about to read “Mormon Doctrine: What’s Official and What Isn’t?” I have scanned it briefly and it gives me some hope. I take things too literally, I admit that. I have a hard time with conceptual thinking when it comes to the Church. When it comes to God and our lives on this planet, I can easily conceptualize because I haven’t proclaimed anything but my opinion and feelings. When the Church says “this is the way it is” I feel like that’s the way it should be. When it isn’t, I get rattled.
I’m working on it, though. If the Church really is the way back, the right way back to where we came from, then I must be a part of it. If it isn’t the only way back, then it doesn’t matter to me. That’s what I need to re-discover. Is it the only way back?
Yes, it is very difficult to separate the gospel and the church – but they are not one-in-the-same. The church does indeed contain and teach the gospel but the gospel is bigger yet simpler than the church.
Frankly, I don’t know if the church is the only way back. I do struggle with some aspects of church teachings/doctrine in that respect. I also believe in a just and merciful God who will not exclude those who are following their hearts and doing what they believe to be right. I am reasonably sure the atonement of Christ applies to everyone, not just Mormons.
April 5, 2014 at 7:38 pm #283039Anonymous
GuestWelcome. Learning to let go of literalism in all areas is hard – but it is critical to forming a more realistic, empowering view.
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