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April 9, 2014 at 3:59 pm #208689
Anonymous
GuestA person on another internet discussion board wrote a letter to Pres Uchtdorf. There letter was 6 pages and outlined all the problems with the church that we are all familiar with (BofM, BoA, Polyandry, etc) Below is the response that he got. He also posted a copy of the letter on FP letterhead, so I’m pretty sure its legit.
Quote:Dear XXXXXXX,
Thank you for your recent letter addressed to President Dieter F. Uchtdorf. He has asked that I respond in his behalf.
You are posing the wrong questions to the wrong people. Regardless of what any of the General Authorities might tell you in person or in writing, your answer to the questions you pose must come directly from God Himself to you through the Holy Ghost, which direction you are entitled to as you honor the covenants you have made. Only God, not man, can provide the assurance and sure knowledge you are seeking. Being a long-time member as indicated in your letter, you will understand that concept and will have experienced it.
As you prayerfully and honestly consider your questions using the formula outlined in Moroni 10:3-7, you will know the truth by the power of the Holy Ghost. That knowledge will then become an unshakable anchor to you.
It is understood that this is not the response you were looking for; however, please know it is the sincere prayer of the First Presidency that you will receive the spiritual guidance you are seeking.
Sincerely,
Secretary to the First Presidency
First of all its interesting that the FP did not forward the letter to his SP, and ask him to handle it as has been the custom. Could be the FP did not want to expose the SP or Bishop to the contents of the letter?But the biggest thing I see is that personal revelation trumps any answer that any GA could give you. Now if we could just get of the FP to quote the just of this letter over the pulpit at GC, we’d be getting somewhere!
(If anybody would like to see the actual post, PM me and I’ll provide the link)
April 9, 2014 at 4:32 pm #283466Anonymous
GuestIt is interesting it wasn’t just referred back tot he SP. I can’t postulate why not. I agree that a strict interpretation of the wording of the letter does indicate personal revelation trumping that of a GA (I note he did say “any”), but when “reading between the lines” it is pretty clear he expects you will get the party line (“correct”) answer. It’s actually a great deflection from a nobody – what scriptural authority does a secretary to the FP have? April 9, 2014 at 7:39 pm #283467Anonymous
GuestI like it – for multiple reasons, not least of which is that none of ether FP has the time to respond to generic letters of any kind (and it absolutely was a generic letter, as described). I also like the refusal to provide “the one true answer” to any question and the implication that one’s own understanding is more fundamental than what anyone else believes.
April 9, 2014 at 8:48 pm #283468Anonymous
GuestOld-Timer wrote:I like it – for multiple reasons, not least of which is that none of ether FP has the time to respond to generic letters of any kind (and it absolutely was a generic letter, as described).
I also like the refusal to provide “the one true answer” to any question and the implication that one’s own understanding is more fundamental than what anyone else believes.
I agree Ray, from what I understand the books “Answers to Gospel questions” where originally a section of a church magazine where persons could send their doctrinal poderings. In some cases it seems quite clear how the posed question led to a speculative answer that later evolved into accepted policy/doctrine. Sometimes the new guidance was just annoyingly overrestrictive (like the advice to avoid face cards). In the case of justifications for the priesthood ban, the church has been trying to disentangle itself from some of these speculative pontifications for decades.
April 9, 2014 at 8:51 pm #283469Anonymous
GuestRoy wrote:Old-Timer wrote:I like it – for multiple reasons, not least of which is that none of ether FP has the time to respond to generic letters of any kind (and it absolutely was a generic letter, as described).
I also like the refusal to provide “the one true answer” to any question and the implication that one’s own understanding is more fundamental than what anyone else believes.
I agree Ray, from what I understand the books “Answers to Gospel questions” where originally a section of a church magazine where persons could send their doctrinal poderings. In some cases it seems quite clear how the posed question led to a speculative answer that later evolved into accepted policy/doctrine. Sometimes the new guidance was just annoyingly overrestrictive (like the advice to avoid face cards). In the case of justifications for the priesthood ban, the church has been trying to disentangle itself from some of these speculative pontifications for decades.
And I think they stopped doing those because the answers were becoming doctrine instead of simple answers to questions and one man’s opinion. It’s good they don’t do them anymore and haven’t for a long time.
April 10, 2014 at 12:24 am #283470Anonymous
GuestI actually like the answer for a few backhanded reasons. 1. It places the onus on the individual to make their own decision about the truth claims. There is an implicit assumption in the answer that it’s all true, but ultimately, the letter underscores the idea that interpreting prayer/answers etcetera is an individual thing — and they put the answer squarely on the shoulders of the individual.
2. It shows they aren’t willing to confront these questions. They have to rely on a standard answer as there is no where to go with defensible answers.
3. It shows at least they read the letter your friend sent.
4. It doesn’t provide a threat of any kind like “I’m worried about you”..”Don’t question”..”People who question doctrine incur the wrath of God” and other threats. The letter avoids that.
5. It also shows the GA’s are human and don’t see it as their role to answer doctrinal or historical questions (“you are asking the wrong questions to the wrong people”). The letter reinforces my own perception that the Apostles don’t have any special knowledge…they simply talented, committed people who have risen in the church, and carry no special access to divine wisdom on central issues
In short, the letter confirms my own conclusions of a few years ago that our church is much like any other temporal organization.
April 10, 2014 at 12:32 pm #283471Anonymous
GuestI didn’t notice a small detail until I read your post SilentDawning. Quote:You are posing the
wrong questionsto the wrong people. What makes a question “wrong?” The word choice might reveal a distaste for the questions raised or the word choice might be acknowledging that resolving historical concerns doesn’t really move us down the path to spiritual enlightenment as much as we might think it will. Or it might be repetition to drive home the point. Yes, I read entirely too much into it already. Anyway, that’s a good response. If I had to change anything I’d change that one phrase to be:
Quote:You are posing your questions to the wrong people.
April 10, 2014 at 3:10 pm #283472Anonymous
GuestI don’t know nibbler, I think a question can be wrong if it is taking us in a direction that we ultimately don’t want to go. We may not know we are asking the wrong questions until we get down the road a while. I like the idea that BoM historicity or BoA literal translation is the wrong question, the real question is can I make my home in the church? Can my participation ultimately help be grow into a more complete and mature person? I agree that nobody can answer this question for me. I appreciate that they say it is not their position to answer my personal direction.
Yes, this is a different idea of the purpose of church than most members hold, but it is right for me — and as the letter says (from my POV) it is nobody’s place to say I’m wrong.
Quote:As you prayerfully and honestly consider your questions using the formula outlined in Moroni 10:3-7, you will know the truth by the power of the Holy Ghost. That knowledge will then become an unshakable anchor to you.
Yes, I do feel like I have an unshakable anchor, and the philosophies of men will not sway me. I don’t expect my answers to be universal or equal other people’s answers – and that little detail is a fundamental part of my anchor.
April 10, 2014 at 3:32 pm #283473Anonymous
GuestThe question may very well be wrong in the grand scheme of things but a person that is asking the question doesn’t feel that way, otherwise they wouldn’t have asked it. It’s might be the right question for them with where they are in life. Orson wrote:We may not know we are asking the wrong questions until we get down the road a while.
I agree with this but I still think that the only way someone is going to reach that conclusion is by discovering it for themselves, not by being told that their question is wrong. Telling someone that their question is wrong might make the person asking the question raise their defenses or suspicions.
Not too long ago the answers to those very questions were absolutely vital to me, now they don’t bother me at all. I suppose in retrospect they were the wrong questions but at the time I don’t think that being told they were the wrong questions by someone would have helped all that much. Maybe I’m wrong, maybe being told my questions were the wrong questions would have got me thinking and helped me arrive at my current conclusion earlier? For all I know that may have happened here.
:think: Maybe the approach should be to say
whythe questions are wrong rather than to matter-of-factly state they are wrong. They took that time to educate the person how they were asking the wrong people, maybe take a little time to explain why the questions were wrong (for the very reasons you state) in the process? I’m just trying to say that being told that your questions are wrong runs the risk of having your response being interpreted as dismissive or arrogant.
April 10, 2014 at 3:55 pm #283474Anonymous
GuestYes, I agree the “wrong questions” part was a bit of a put-off. It implies that one shouldn’t apply reason or personal brains to our doctrine and history. If its really the truth, it should be able to stand up to scrutiny. It implies the only question is to ask God if it is true and then based on one’s own interpretation of the answer, go ahead believing in spite of things not adding up. April 10, 2014 at 6:27 pm #283475Anonymous
GuestI think literalists, of both the fundamentalist and skeptical tendency, often miss the wood for the trees. It’s easy to ask why elephants appear in the Book of Mormon, or talking snakes and asses in the Bible, but it doesn’t get you anywhere really.
What people should be asking is “what’s good and worthwhile keeping in the church?”, “is X godly and Christlike?” and “does this particular thing work for me?”
April 10, 2014 at 6:50 pm #283476Anonymous
GuestI love this forum. You’re such a reasonable and balanced group of people. April 10, 2014 at 9:00 pm #283477Anonymous
GuestWhat I meant by X there is a practise, not a person! I think the church culture is Christlike about service and practical support, but not about white shirts, elitism etc
April 10, 2014 at 9:47 pm #283478Anonymous
GuestPersonally, I really liked the letter. I actually like the idea that you are posing the wrong questions to the wrong people. Why is it the wrong question? Because finding “proof” one way or the other about historical facts is not the same as spiritual enlightenment and becoming like a god. It’s just being right or wrong, and people want to be right. That’s actually kind of a heady answer in and of itself, like the enigmatic sayings of Buddha. Like saying, you are thinking about the wrong things, and you are expecting other human beings (church leaders) to prove your beliefs (or unbeliefs) so you can make assumptions about how you should act. Instead, have your own relationship with God and decide what you should do based on that. I think that’s really the best answer you can get, and I’d love to hear that over the pulpit in Gen Conf: that personal revelation trumps Sunday School answers. And I wouldn’t read into it that the assumption is that the person will get the “right” answer. It doesn’t say that, I think intentionally. God will answer or not. April 13, 2014 at 2:08 pm #283479Anonymous
GuestI mostly like the answer in the letter, but I do agree with Nibbler that if somehow had told me my questions were wrong at the start of my FC, I would have been pretty mad and disappointed. I had tried the “pray harder” route for a long time without getting any answers. An response like that letter would have driven me farther away. Today my reaction would be different, though. This did lead me to ask another question: if what that letter says is true, then why do we have SM talks, YM/YW & SS classes, seminary/institute, or RS/P meetings? Why don’t we just go take the sacrament on Sunday and then go home to study and pray on our own? If the answers can truly only come through personal prayer and study, why have all the church curriculum? Actually, I’d be OK with taking the sacrament and then testimonies every Sunday if people really shared experiences in their spiritual journeys, like we do here. IOW, not the “I know the church is true,” but “while studying the other day, I had this enlightenment…”
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