A truly shocking visit from the SP

The church needs more people like you in leadership.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

That’s cool. Now I find myself curious as to how you answered the SP in your clarification.

I didn’t have a ton of time when I was writing earlier. One of those other points was a call to repentance, actually, which was delivered a bit stronger than it needed to be but I think he sensed that. I have never met this guy before. He’s a nice guy and in spite of my view that most local leaders are uninspired I have to admit I’m pretty sure he is inspired – that was one of the other points, that he was explicit about the idea that my name came to him clearly. He has been SP less than a month, and it is his seat on the high council that is open.

Ray, don’t be modest – you have helped me in more ways than you know.

Nibbler, we did talk a bit about my doubts, and he essentially asked the main temple recommend questions, focusing on the more spiritual ones as opposed to the outwardly more worldly ones (that is, he didn’t ask about the WoW or tithing). I answered him that yes I believe in God, but maybe not in exactly the same way he does. He pressed a bit and I told him I don’t believe the ruler of the universe helps people find their car keys and that in all recorded scripture, direct interaction between God and man is very rare. He in turn talked about how prayers are often answered by others as opposed to God directly and quoted SWK’s old standby excuses for prayers not being answered. In the end I think we both actually felt as though we saw eye to eye on the subject. This was all prior to the discussion of the high council. When he got around to that I used ray’s line and he asked me want I meant by that. I told him that I would never be insincere about what I believe and I would not teach that which I do not believe. Likewise, I would never try to convert anyone else to my way of thinking nor would I intentionally say or do things to harm the testimony of another or tarnish the reputation of the church. He had asked earlier about why I don’t come to church and asked again with the approach of what keeps me from coming to church. I deflected that question (you all may know it’s largely because I don’t like people teaching as doctrine that which is not and talking about how they “know” things they don’t know at all) by telling him I sensed he was very spiritually in tune and if he prayed about it he would know – but that “it’s not that simple” (I said that three times during our conversation – and I think he knew where it was coming from). Again, you may know that is the reason I think my bishop is uninspired – if he were inspired he’d know because God knows. I don’t actually expect the SP will get a definitive answer – but I do expect he will get an answer and I am eager to hear what it is.

We agreed to meet again next Sunday and discuss the outcome of our prayers. While I will pray about it, I don’t need to.

Wow, that would definitely be shocking. I seem to recall you saying that you haven’t been to church in a long time, on the order of several years. Am I remembering right? I had a similar experience about a year ago. I got called in to speak to one of the SP’s councilors, who asked me to be a councilor in the Elder’s quorum presidency. This despite the fact that I had not once attended Elder’s quorum in the four years we’d been in that ward and that not once had anyone tried to visit me and ask why or try to get to know me better. I just found it so bizarre.

At any rate, I wish you the best with this. Personally I get incredibly anxious with situations like that. I hope it works out well for you.

I have shared this experience in another thread here, but it might have been long enough ago that most of you who are participating now didn’t read it:

I was a councilor in the Stake Mission Presidency years ago (obviously, since Stake Missions have been obsolete for quite a while ), and I was asked to select and extend a call to someone to be the Ward Mission Leader in one of the wards. I prayed about it a lot, since I knew essentially nobody in the ward – and I ended up going through their ward roster, hoping a name would jump out at me in a unique way.

One did – very strongly.

I called and scheduled an interview, talked with the man, explained my experience and asked him what he thought. (I don’t believe in asking for a commitment until the person basically has indicated they will accept it if asked formally.) He told me he had been inactive for quite a while but that he had felt recently that he needed to start attending again. He said he had procrastinated doing so, out of habit – and then I called him. He said he couldn’t accept that particular calling at that time, but he thanked me for showing him that the Lord was aware of him and confirming that he was supposed to get his life in order to be able to accept such a calling in the future.

I don’t share that to influence this decision in any way, but I do share it to say that I believe strongly that inspiration can and sometimes does drive the issuance of callings – and this very well could be one such instance.

In the end, what cwald just said.

Also, fwiw, sometimes I was the lead voice of a different perspective when I served on the HC. The last time I was released (due to moving to another state), the Stake Presidency was reorganized a couple of months later – and two of the new presidency were members of the HC who had thanked me personally for expressing a different perspective. One told me that my willingness to do so had empowered him to express his own unorthodox views – and that he would try to represent the silent members of the stake as he served in the SP. That simple statement hit me HARD.

Often, it’s not just the effect of our words in the moment that matters. Often, what we say and do has a ripple effect that we can’t anticipate at the time.

Also, fwiw, sometimes I was the lead voice of a different perspective when I served on the HC. The last time I was released (due to moving to another state), the Stake Presidency was reorganized a couple of months later – and two of the new presidency were members of the HC who had thanked me personally for expressing a different perspective. One told me that my willingness to do so had empowered him to express his own unorthodox views – and that he would try to represent the silent members of the stake as he served in the SP. That simple statement hit me HARD.

For what its worth, my father was released from the High Council because he was not a “yes man” to all the SP’s edicts. When they had the discussions, my father would give the contraire POV. In the end he always supported the SP, but not before he made his views known.

I’m sure that happens, Sheldon, but it shouldn’t. If a stake is a mini version of the church organization (my SP alluded to this in the interview) then the SP should full well expect that not every member of the HC is going to agree with him 100% – but in the end consensus and sustaining the action are the important parts. That said, this is why I made it a point to let the SP know that he gets who he calls and my beliefs might not be exactly the same as his. If this calling is truly inspired (he didn’t use that term, he actually said “prayerfully pondered”) then who is he to question God? Maybe that’s exactly why your father was there.

We have a tentative followup appointment tomorrow.