Monson vs. Smith

I have never liked that GAs tell you to go find your own answers through prayer and personal testimony, yet always have the unspoken expectation that you better receive the right answer or you are deceived. If you are going to tell others they must find out for themselves, you better actually give them the freedom to disagree with you. Now, granted I understand that the church must protect itself against people who receive inspiration and then take it upon themselves to preach their own doctrine in the church. But when it comes to your own personal life, I should not feel obligated to receive the “correct inspiration” in order to feel worthy. I felt inspired (both through prayer and my own reasoned, well thought out decision making process) to divorce my first wife, and it has turned out to be just as good a decision as I felt it was at the time. Yet, when I told him where my prayers were leading me regarding my marriage, I was literally told by my branch president at the time that “You have been deceived by the devil.” He proceeded to use scriptures about Korihor and Cain to demonstrate what devilish deception can do to a person.

I honestly believe, at this point in my life, that some people are genuinely inspired to remain in the church and that others are genuinely inspired to leave the church. After all, the world is full of billions of people, almost all of which are not LDS. I think it is narrow thinking to believe that God will always direct all people into this church. If that was his plan, then he has done a poor job at it, when .002% (or something around there) of the world is LDS. Divine work must be done on all fronts, with all people. When the scriptures talk about a great and marvelous work, I believe it is a worldwide evolution, of which the LDS church is only one part of.

But despite what I believe, I am also working toward a place of peace in recognizing that my beliefs will always change and evolve. I try to avoid the certainty of believing my current beliefs are finally “the right way.” I believe that inspiration is never meant to be a certain process. I believe that Joseph Smith received inspiration. I believe that many prophets and members of the church have received inspiration. But it is getting harder and harder to believe that they receive inspiration that entails true facts. I feel like inspiration is trying to communicate through a tin can and a string. God’s thoughts are so much higher than ours that anything he says to us passes through magnitudes of layers that are like the world’s worst ‘telephone game.’ But I believe it is meant to be that way, because we are meant to walk by faith in this life, and not walk by certainty in the truths we try to grasp.

I listened to a Mormon Matter podcast today. In it, someone said, “Do not confuse the finger pointing toward the moon to be the moon itself.” In other words, don’t confuse the inspiration pointing toward God to be the same thing as the way God and his truths really are. We are striving to point towards God, not striving to have certain, infallible truths about God in this life. I think we are here learning to feel what truth feels like, not have an accurate intellectual understanding of truth. We are here to taste good and evil, not be expert theologians on what good and evil factually are.

Hey, Keepswimmin, glad you’re sticking around. It’s good you’re looking at what you do believe, too – I really do think that is key. If this is any help to you in a general sort of way, shortly after I started to look at what I do believe I looked at the temple recommend questions as a guide. I figured if the TR is a measure of worthiness, then answering the questions should be of value – I was actually surprised to find out how “worthy” I was, nevertheless I could not at that point answer all of them appropriately.

Many of us struggle with these same things you mention in this post – even after many years. I struggle with Joseph as a prophet. I do believe he had a profound spiritual experience in the grove, and I believe that for many reasons. For one thing, I believe his testimony, even after looking at the different versions of the story (all nicely compiled for us on lds.org these days). I also believe that he would not have gone through all he did if he didn’t believe it. All he had to do was walk away, go build a farmstead on the frontier, and disappear. But he didn’t do that. Beyond that vision, however, I don’t actually believe much of it. I can’t really point out specific things and say, that section I believe, this one I don’t, I only believe certain verses in this one, etc. In a very general sort of way I believe he may have been inspired to organize a church, but I don’t think God commanded him in all things – I don’t necessarily believe God organized this church, I believe Joseph and his successors did.

As modern prophets go, I do sustain Pres. Monson as the prophet and leader of the church. He’s a good man doing what he thinks is right and that doesn’t include persecution of others or drinking deadly Kool-Aid. I do believe he has the keys passed down to him from his predecessors and that he holds them (if they actually exist, that is). I don’t particularly like his speaking style, he bores me, and I tend to tune out stories about little Tommy and the widows that he repeats. At the same time, I recognize that he talks primarily about one thing – loving others, and those stories all relate to that. Both of his counselors also focus on that idea and other very core tenets of the gospel, as do some of the apostles. I’m not sure if he’s inspired or not, but as long as he is teaching core principles of the gospel I cannot fault him. I also don’t believe any of the prophets since Joseph Smith has received revelation more than promptings or impressions of the spirit which we can all have. I think Brigham Young was a great man, a kingdom builder, and a great leader. Without him I think the church would not have survived. But I don’t think much of what he did was inspired and I think he alone is responsible for much false doctrine held onto by many to this day. Were I alive in his day I would hope that I would have been sent to the far reaches of Deseret.

I also have trouble with the whole restored gospel thing – I believe that since Christ’s mortal ministry some people have always believed in him and his story, and that’s what the gospel is. There are so many “other doctrines” that are only contained in the BoM and D&C, and since I question and doubt both of those, I question and doubt those doctrines. My middle way here is that I believe we know so little about pre-earth life and so little about the afterlife that it’s not worth worrying about. You will not hear me teach or testify about these things, and I tune out others who do so.

I’m curious. I am an Uchtdorfite, and I have to be very careful that I don’t do what I accuse others of doing – worshiping an idol. What talk of his was it that brought you to tears?

Which is another thing that comes to mind.. i get if they are prophets of god we should recognize that.. but I feel he gets just as much attention from us as God does.. which in a way is “worshipping an image”. It was “come join with us” at the end he is even brought to tears.. it wasn’t so much wwhat HE said but what he made me realize of Christ.. how he truly did sacrifice and suffer.. and how alone he must have felt. I love our savior so much and I would never and could never deny him. And with as much as I do trust in him.. I feel if this was the TRUE way or ONLY way I’d feel it towards the church.

I suspected that was the talk, Keepswimmin. I love that talk and constantly reference it. That talk quite literally is the reason I am here today. He has done some other great ones, too.

And, I do have a problem with the celebrity status and worship of GAs. Again, I think they’re good people doing what they think is right – but God is no respecter of persons and I don’t think the idolization many give to them is a good thing.

Joseph was, naturally, a visionary restorationist. That was both his genius and his downfall, I believe – the reason he was told his name would be had for both good and evil throughout the world. Both visions and restoration can be tricky, since it’s not easy to know which things ought to be envisioned or not and which things ought to be restored or not.

I think Pres. Monson is one of the best examples of a scriptural prophet we have had in the Church – someone who is almost single-minded about an issue of great importance that is vital to the time period. In Pres. Monson’s case, that would be service to the poor, the widowed, etc. I think his choice of Pres. Uchtdorf and Pres. Eyring as his counselors reinforces that cause.

Also, I wrote the following on my personal blog back in October 2009:

“Paul v. John – Oaks v. Uchtdorf: Why We Need a Quorum of 12 Apostles” – http://thingsofmysoul.blogspot.com/2009/10/paul-v-john-oaks-v-andersen-why-we-need.html

Paul v John just sounds like the Beatles to me.

I saw a movie of Gandhi’s life. I believe that Gandhi likewise meets the definition of prophet – though he never claimed any special visions that I am aware of.

It seems that Lehi was prophet to little more than his own family.

Perhaps prophets (in the way that I had once conceived JS being a prophet with infallible direct from heaven answers) have never existed.

OTOH, perhaps there are many human and flawed prophets going about their work to ennoble the human family at this very moment.