Why do you want to stay, and why is that hard?

Thanks for asking, and I appreciate you joining in on our discussions. I like to see a wide variety of views expressed, one of my hopes for StayLDS.com has always been to help people understand how others may view things differently — and as long as the discussion can remain respectful I think we can make progress toward that goal.

To me the church is much like a family, or a home town. Why would I or anyone want to stay? Why would anyone want to leave? Obviously we can think of extreme situations where staying at our home could become the absolute wrong thing to do, when things become extremely incompatible and only misery will result from staying. Thankfully it is not that way with me and the church, we have some disagreements but I believe we can work through them.

How is it difficult to stay? Most of the time it isn’t, but sometimes I can be made to feel unwanted or undervalued. It usually has to do with the feeling that my complete and honest self will not be accepted, that who I am may feel threatening to some members. So out of respect and not having a desire to make others uncomfortable I try to shield them from parts of myself that they will not want to see. You will often hear people in this situation say things like “it feels lonely” or “there is no acceptance or validation for me.”

What is the difference between us and “average” members? There are endless possibilities for personal differences, what I experience is mostly related to perspective. In short the sum of my life experience creates a slightly different picture than I hear described (in general) in church. I hear bits and pieces of things that absolutely resonate with me, and those things make it much easier for my participation, but much of the “popular” picture just doesn’t fit well with me.

The critical event for me personally, and many others, is the complete loss of my previous faith. The “house” that was my belief structure from my youth burned completely to the ground. It wasn’t gutted and heavily damaged, it was leveled. I have since worked hard, and for many years, to rebuild. Today I see the biggest problem was it wasn’t originally built to any type of fire code — translation: Many of my concepts were not compatible enough with verifiable reality. I’m not saying every member believes this way, but I did. I thought my particular view was “the” view that the church espoused and required — which made my “house” extremely flammable.

I am not even sure now why I feel some desire to stay. To be honest, I don’t really want to stay. When I do feel like staying, much of it comes from avoiding the judgment of family and friends, wanting to go back to something comfortable and familiar, wanting to attend the temple (except some of it bothers me), feeling the need to do service, and feeling the desire to improve church culture through my own contribution.

But above all else, I often feel the need to stay LDS because I get overwhelmed with fear at times that if I don’t, and the church turns out to be what it claims, that I will be unable to live with God…that I will have made myself into the kind of person that can’t bear God’s presence.

On a personal level, I just don’t want to be there. On an intellectual level, I can understand the idea of letting go of what I don’t believe and just showing up and contributing my unique voice. But I have been hurt too much. I suffer almost daily the wounds of emotional abuse from my church experiences. I can’t even look at a bishop without fearing that he reads my soul and will find me out. I can barely bring myself to even listen to a talk by someone as awesome as Uchtdorf, because he reminds me of the church. I love the church. Or at least I did. I don’t know. But it has become such a shame trigger for me that it feels unhealthy for me to be there. People that don’t share my beliefs tell me that I seem happier, and they don’t even know about any of this. Some of them don’t even know I am LDS.

Another reason I don’t want to go is because my 10-yr-old son already demonstrates scrupulosity tendencies. He is afraid of doing things wrong and not getting to live with me after this life, despite all of the efforts I have put into helping him develop self-worth, think for himself and not live in fear and shame. My LDS mother and sister have caused him to be in tears and literally come home saying to me, “Dad, I don’t want you to die and go to hell! I want to live with you after this life.” His mother is one of the most rigid TBMs that I have ever met. Much of it is her fault, and not the church. But I can’t let the church off the hook, either. I try to imagine going to church with my son, and it creates feelings of irresponsibility as a parent. I know how it will affect him, and not in a good way. I am not sure that myself and my son are in a place to receive the good in the church, because of our emotional, shame-based wounds. Yet, my son will still go to church every other weekend when he is at his mom’s.

I feel like I am torn between doing what may be best in an eternal spectrum, and doing what is healthy and responsible in this life. And when I have this realization, I must come to the conclusion that what is healthy in this life will lead to heaven. I cannot imagine a heaven where people must suffer emotional abuse to be prepared for heaven.

To go to church would mean weekly damage-control conversations with my son, and then me having to talk with my fiancé to work through whatever may trigger my shame. I think of the costs of going, and the benefits start becoming insignificant in comparison really fast. I can get benefits elsewhere.

But if my temple covenants are real and I am breaking them and losing exaltation through these choices, that scares the crap out of my scrupulous side. Sometimes I would give my right arm to have the self-confidence that others have to think their own opinions without fear of being wrong.

I do feel strongly, from my own personal experiences and inspiration, that God is trying to teach me to trust myself right now. I am starting to feel more and more that my calling in life at this point is not going to be in the church. I don’t fault anyone else who is in the church. We all have our paths. But that is what I am feeling. But I am also scared to take that path. And I must also recognize that I can’t predict the future. But right now, I just don’t know how to be there.

I feel more liberated than ever. I feel more scared than ever. I feel more confident than ever. I feel more uncertain than ever.

I do not believe any of it. I figure it is all the ideas of men. But I hang around because I was born a Mormon and that is mostly what I know. Staying is not difficult anymore because I do it on my own terms. I pick and choose what I want to do. But mostly I am just apathetic about it all

As for why it’s hard: Because many members do not know or study their religion. They may read the scriptures, but they do not study the doctrine or gospel. They say and claim things as doctrine that are tradition but not true or right. It’s exhausting to hear people talking about things they do not know. Many of the “beliefs” I hear professed on Sunday are not doctrine and/or may perpetuate some of the problems I have with the people and commonly held beliefs of the “church.” I tend to think the teachings of the church is true, but the practice is where people fail. That makes it hard for me. That is not to mention the blind faith people have. I am an academic by profession and know the benefit in a healthy dose of skepticism. I believe people should study and find and learn, not hear from a pulpit and spew back as Truth. I StayLDS because I find it comforting to believe in a god and church helps me build a good relationship with him.

I could have written this myself, well put.

As for why it’s hard: Because many members do not know or study their religion. They may read the scriptures, but they do not study the doctrine or gospel. They say and claim things as doctrine that are tradition but not true or right. It’s exhausting to hear people talking about things they do not know. Many of the “beliefs” I hear professed on Sunday are not doctrine and/or may perpetuate some of the problems I have with the people and commonly held beliefs of the “church.” I tend to think the teachings of the church is true, but the practice is where people fail. That makes it hard for me. That is not to mention the blind faith people have. I am an academic by profession and know the benefit in a healthy dose of skepticism. I believe people should study and find and learn, not hear from a pulpit and spew back as Truth. I StayLDS because I find it comforting to believe in a god and church helps me build a good relationship with him.

BlueFalconX250,

Welcome. I see that this is your first post, and I look forward to hearing your voice here as well.

I do want to comment on what you said, because I think it’s important to get a handle on it. We’ve all been there to some degree or another. Since coming to StayLDS, I’ve been able to get to a much better position (for me) with regards to how I see other people in the Church. I’ve come to realize that it doesn’t affect me if somebody else believes or practices differently from me. There are some things that people do and say that get under my skin, of course, but I think it’s a great course of action not to project ourselves onto others and then get frustrated with them when they don’t approach the Church/Gospel the way we would. After all, most every member of the Church could have written your last sentence.

Ultimately, our desire for Church members to stop being the way they are will go unfulfilled. So, then what? Do we extricate ourselves from the Church because of others? God forbid. I believe that people like us can slowly make an impact on the culture of the Church, but only if we are as willing to accept them as we hope they are to accept us.

I stay mainly for family and friendship reasons.

My wife stopped attending 3.5 years ago. I still take the kids.

Over the last year or two I’ve transitioned from being a Mormon absolutist to a Mormon Universalist. I am moving closer to being a Universalist who worships with Mormons.

I don’t believe out church is more true or has more authority than lots of other churches, faiths and traditions. I do not believe Mormon ordinances (in this life or the next) to be the only route to godliness or our greatest potential.

I have a belief in God that has been shaped by my Mormon upbringing and spiritual experience. As such, I still feel most comfortable when worshipping with other Mormons. They’re my tribe.

While a few “in real life” friends and family know the full extent of my faith transition, most don’t. I accept that in an absolutist group like Mormons, there are some things that are best not said.

I find it difficult sometimes to be in that absolutist environment. Sometimes it the narrowness of the perspectives creates a squeezed space to be.

I try to remind myself, in the spirit of Universalism, that some people work best when they have the conviction of certainty and being absolutely right. I try to not begrudge them that need and hope that, over time, the church as an organisation will become more accepting and comfortable with the uncertainty and ambiguity that I have.

Will I always stay LDS? I hope so, but I consider it quite unlikely.

This will probably sound cheesy – but it’s true – I stay because I feel it’s where Heavenly Father wants me right now. Whether that is the god within me or an external god, it’s important that I remain.

The staying gets better especially when I put my ego aside and “try to be like Jesus.”