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mackay11, you might want to add the following quote from Chieko Okazaki to the quotes thread, but I want to post it as a separate discussion thread: Quote:“If you experience the pain of exclusion at church from someone who is frightened at your difference, please don’t leave or become inactive. You may think you are voting with your feet, that you are making a statement by leaving. [Some may] see your diversity as a problem to be fixed, as a flaw to be corrected or erased. If you are gone, they don’t have to deal with you anymore. I want you to know that your diversity is a more valuable statement.”
– Chieko N. Okazaki, “Cat’s Cradle,” 1993.
Love it. From a slightly different point of view, you’re only hurting yourself and not helping anyone else by leaving. Why is my brain wired so differently? 😳 The first thing that popped into my head was domestic violence. Yeah, I know it’s waaaaaaaaaaay over there on the spectrum of things, apples:oranges, nevertheless it popped in my head. In some situations it can be best to leave.
In the context of diversity this would translate to it all depends on to what extreme and what methods were employed in addressing the “problem” of the person that doesn’t fit in.
nibbler, I accept completely that there are situations where someone needs to stop attending church – and even some that require (and I use that word intentionally) leaving completely. I also agree with Sister Okazaki, however, that stopping or leaving shouldn’t be the general default. In those cases, I believe charity (especially, long-suffering patience) is important – not just for the person but for the organization as a whole. “They” need diversity in order to grow and progress and have a shot at realizing Zion just as much as “we” need it. Since I think a lot in tangents:
It’s interesting that the admins here would LOVE to have more participants who are more orthodox, for that very reason – as long as they can be respectful and charitable. We would love more diversity here not just because “they” need us but also because “we” need them. If we push more orthodox, respectful members away from this forum, we are no better than those who push us away at church.
I agree with everything you said. This is one of the many reasons I love Chieko. She is like a modern day Paul – cracking open the full gospel opportunities. In my home I am the one who attends – I am the reverse of Mackay and sometimes as I am leaving my husband asks why I go. Every once in a while I tell him I go for him. It frustrates him, but I mean it. I go for him and for every other one of us in this experience – even the growing exMo crowd. I am not trying to be noble – I just really fear if “weirdo’s’ “apostates”, etc don’t go, the churches potential will not be reached. It will become merely an echo chamber. Sounding Brass and Tinkling Cymbals. In a weird way I offer
thema chance to test theirs, and my, Christian sincerity and resolve. Lastly, I have lived long enough to know that some of us may return someday. I have countless stories of individuals who fit Chieko’s description of rejection, who voted with their feet, their heart – everything. Then suddenly 10, 20 even 50 years later, some turn of event comes along and LDSness calls you back. We need to hold benches for them too. They may still have all of their marginalized parts but they want a place to worship and at least one friend. I hope I can be that friend.
Great quote Ray. Thanks.
Old-Timer wrote:mackay11, you might want to add the following quote from Chieko Okazaki to the quotes thread, but I want to post it as a separate discussion thread:
Quote:“If you experience the pain of exclusion at church from someone who is frightened at your difference, please don’t leave or become inactive. You may think you are voting with your feet, that you are making a statement by leaving. [Some may] see your diversity as a problem to be fixed, as a flaw to be corrected or erased. If you are gone, they don’t have to deal with you anymore. I want you to know that your diversity is a more valuable statement.”
– Chieko N. Okazaki, “Cat’s Cradle,” 1993.
Ya Ray. Is there any reason I can’t love that women?! More then words but modeled with actions. Bit I do admit that it’s so easy to say. If only because if you are surrounded by criticism by those that are different, it’s a actually very hard to get yourself to believe it and “feel it”. Mostly it’s feels like just words, until you learn to love yourself no matter what others have to say about it.
I know people that have complete conversations with themselves lol. If only because they have no one who can relate or share their ideas and experiences. We can’t help others to see most times, but we can each be the one practices empathy to all.
I love the quote and appreciate the sentiment. I quoted Chieko in a talk I gave a few months ago that I called “finding unity in diversity” – I posted it here:
http://manyotherhands.blogspot.co.uk/2014/06/all-are-alike-unto-god-finding-unity-in.htmla Quote:It’s interesting that the admins here would LOVE to have more participants who are more orthodox, for that very reason – as long as they can be respectful and charitable. We would love more diversity here not just because “they” need us but also because “we” need them. If we push more orthodox, respectful members away from this forum, we are no better than those who push us away at church.
Ray that is a great reminder. It is an area I struggle with – not so much with people joining our group here, but including others more orthodox in my heart. I know they resent or push against my views, and immaturely I do the same to them. I march with my heart/feet against them. I talk that talk, but really walking it is a lot harder.
I think there is a tendency for those of us who hang out here to view this forum as “our” place–a place for people like us, a refuge, a safe place to vent, complain, and express deep feelings that we are unable to express at church. It would be great to have more orthodox members who can respect those needs, but that type of member is rare indeed. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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