Could this all be false?

If none of it is true, and if there is a God (which, if you think about it, are mutually exclusive), I think he would love the fact that we did our best to understand and do our best – and, ironically, that is a core Mormon doctrine no matter the specifics of our focus.

If there is no God, we still did the best we could to understand and do our best.

I can see where it could be – 100% the interpretation of a man who had extra sensory abilities. Ten years ago, I would have fought tooth and nails against the idea. Now it’s plausible. So why continue? Christmas.

As I pass through this transition I have examined why I still celebrate Christmas. To me sticking with Mormonism and how I celebrate Christmas go hand in hand.

As Mormons we have been told Christ was born on April 6 – but as a church we still fully engage in the December celebration of the Birth of our Lord. No one flinches, in fact we get as wrapped up in it as anybody.

Christmas is a tradition with a thousand strings of stuff – none of them connected, none of it validly Christ-anything. Jesus didn’t have an evergreen tree, or jingle bells. Santa is not real and has been for ages, but my kids (the little ones, if I had any) still get to connect with Santa. I still fill stockings for fun, have our traditional dinners, gift exchanges, neighbor get together’s and stress. All for something humanity created.

I love it, I hate it, I can’t imagine life without it. Most of all at least one night during the hectic, frantic season, I sit in a silent living room, with a lit tree and every other light out and I absorb a peace beyond words or understanding.

Yes LDSness could very well be completely made up – but it won’t hurt me if it is. It gives too many gifts to be abandoned.

I had a fleeting thought tonite about how God would judge us saints for encouraging and spreading false doctrine.

Not to lead you further down the rabbit hole but if it’s all false (including the concept of god) then you don’t really have to worry about that either.

Besides my underlying anxiety about what we talk and teach to our children and others…then there is the tiring, never ending work of being a member. Sometimes its just so overwhelming with all the callings, and appointments, meetings, and requirements we face. As a member of a Presidency i sometimes feel like i dont have enough time in the day to do everything i need to do….i never get my visiting teaching done, i have a meeting to go to every other week, i always have emails to forward/send/and answer, there are receipts i need to log, agendas to be typed and talked about, roll call to take and monitor, phone calls to make, scriptures that never get read, prayers not said. And i wonder where its all leading?

Yes, that’s probably the hardest part of a faith transition. For me the church fell from the vaulted position where I sought first the church and its progress; expecting that all other things would be added unto me. My faith transition forced me to reevaluate my priorities and determine how much of my time and talents I’d be willing to give to the church and reconcile that with my current beliefs. I’m still feeling out the re-balancing process.

I often think of the Dalai Lama’s advice, “Grow where you are planted.” Where I am, smack dab in the middle of Mormon Utah, I am surrounded by Mormonism. … I’ve been planted here in the LDS faith. I’m trying to grow here.

I grafted onto the tree in the nethermost part of the vineyard. Am I the wild olive branch that gives strength to the root? Will my fruit be like unto the natural fruit? I leave the root up to interpretation: the LDS church, the human race, etc.

mom3,

Interesting you bring up Christmas. For about a month I’ve struggled with the “what the heck am I even doing here” feelings, they come and go. Recently Santa popped into my mind, but not in my more familiar context of letting go of beliefs that were once cherished. It’s hard for me to explain but…

As an adult I no longer believe in a magical person that delivers presents to children all over the world. Children believe, it’s a belief from which they derive benefits, both tangible and intangible. I imagined a scenario where I hadn’t yet bought my kid a Christmas present from Santa. I imagined myself to tired, worn down, exhausted, etc., etc. to go to the store to make the purchase, I just didn’t feel like it AT ALL. Santa’s not real, so maybe this is the year to come clean with my kid.

In this imagined scenario it was clear to me that I should suck it up and go to the store to buy something for my kid from Santa. Santa might not be “real” to me but he’s still real to my kid and I wanted them to naturally grow out of their belief in Santa. I don’t want to yank them away from their beliefs before they were ready just because I was feeling to worn down to go to the store… and I’m still participating in the magic, just in a different way.

Not to say that I’m on an elevated plane when compared to church members, at least I don’t feel it’s an elevated plane, just a different plane. I can still have a bit of faith (faith being a principle of action) and continue to have a small role in the magic show.

I love it, I hate it, I can’t imagine life without it.

Yes LDSness could very well be completely made up – but it won’t hurt me if it is. It gives too many gifts to be abandoned.

Mom3 i think you hit the nail on the head of why i continue to go to church. I love the spirit i feel there. The few times i have been able to go and sit in the chapel and sit and meditate have been very special to me. I can sense something i dont get anywhere else. Some of the hymns have that effect too. I never thought that attending church and being a member are alot like a holiday like Christmas. But they are. If its not true i am rec’ing some great benefits from it.

Not to lead you further down the rabbit hole but if it’s all false (including the concept of god) then you don’t really have to worry about that either.

I wasnt saying that the whole concept of God is false, just what we, mormons, purport to be true. Like latter day prophets, that Joseph Smith saw Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ, 3 degrees of glory, the temple endowment, the priesthood, and everything else that follows. What if what we believe that is particular just to us…is false? :think: I cant think of where the verse of scripture is…but someone there is a reference to the fact that we are warned about false prophets. What if we are the group that everyone has been warned about? And what if we are somehow punished for perpetuating that by teaching it to our children or converting others to the church…especially after we have doubts about it?

I appreciate Rays comments that if it is false, God will appreciate that we tried our best, and it its all false it wont matter since there is no God and we tried our best.

What started me on this thread again recently was reading the essay on the BOM translation. So, i realized before i joined the church that there were reports J. Smith put his face in a hat to read some stones or some stuff. Im not an expert but i had a clue. Then when i read that essay i started thinking about all the lessons i had taught in Primary and the ones we are teaching now, the songs we read, the pictures we use that dont show that. Then i got to thinking about why would the church not reveal that openly? Why not address it? Why do we still teach about the plates? Then i thought maybe all of this is a bunch of baloney. What if there is a heaven, but maybe i wont be allowed in because i believed something false that doesnt even exist (i.e. the 3 degrees of glory…which btw i dont buy at all…i dont think God segregates Heaven. To me the that is like the “haves and the have nots”. I know for sure i wont qualify for the celestial kingdom and i REALLY know my family never would! So why shoot for it then. We may be dysfunctional but i want to be with them in the afterlife). Other things i have issues with are like the temple endowment…sometimes when i do it or look back on it…im like do these other people really believe in what they are doing? Are we for real?

Sometimes I think of the Amish way of life. They are committed to it. It seems to make good people through their dedication to certain values. Is it all false? I don’t think so. Is it all the only way to live your life? I don’t think so. I think it is one way that can be good for some people. But I’m glad I live a different way then the Amish do.

The church is the same to me. It has goodness. It is not all true or all false. It’s just a way that if you choose to commit to it, can be a blessing.

Neither the Amish nor the Mormons are without their faults.

There are many paths. The way to God is love and goodness.

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I really don’t believe that it is all false or all true. I’m certain that some of it is false and some true. Which is which is the hard part though;) even if you believe that every basic belief in the church is false there is still some “truth” to the things we do – (being good to others, believe that you have a huge potential, etc etc – many of the universal things that are taught in the church). But I personally believe that Jesus Christ was more than a human being. Is our interpretation of him correct? I don’t think so. I believe Joseph smith had a divine experience but I do not believe all the thing we practice/teach in the church today are true. Just my 10 percent

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