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With all the news and stuff regarding Church discipline, I have become a bit agitated. I am sure you can read my emotions in my posts. One emotion I haven’t had is personal fear. I haven’t suspected anyone would be “after me.” I don’t even own a blog for crying out loud. But association does weird stuff. A few moments ago the UPS man dropped by. He left a flat, dark brown, 81/2 x 11 envelope on the porch. I went out to get it. My name and address were on it. In the upper right hand corner was this address 55 S. West Temple, Salt Lake City, Utah. I panicked, maybe I was being “watched”. Crud what would I do. I, I, I, was all I kept thinking as I ripped the envelope open. I slid my hand inside and found … hosiery.
😆 I flipped the package over and read the return address again. In my haste with the Salt Lake Address, I neglected to notice the word Nordstrom above it. The two local Nordstroms are closing in my area. I have specific hosiery I wear – the clerk ordered them for me, I never asked where they would be arriving from. No one does that.
Anyway – I have not be summonsed. I just got my City Creek Mall purchase shipped to me. I can now go on with my day. And I for added measure I will take some time off from internet/LDS news. I am clearly out of hand over here.
Well, mom3, I’m glad you didn’t get in trouble. I believe you will continue to be a wonderful asset in the church. You’re insights have inspired me to be more Christlike. I had a dose of fear too. Figured that with well over 3000 posts and lots of unorthodox ideas on this site, I might be a target someday. But I never speak out at the local level, and never use my name publicly except a tiny bit recently to a home teacher who dropped by. But who seemed to agree with me more than disagree. Do whatever is good for your mental health. I just want to say, this is one influence of the church that is not positive on both of us!
Has anyone been a target as a result of posting to this site? I’ve basically tried to be as anonymous as possible. Not because I thought I would get in trouble with the church.
It’s just my nature.
cWald got hit due to posting on this site. No, cwald got attention from specific people for various things. He would have gotten crap even if he hadn’t been posting here; posting here was just one thing that those specific people didn’t like. His case is unique and . . . unique. He can share more or not, but he didn’t get singled out for special attention primarily because he was posting here.
I really don’t think I have anything to worry about, I am a commenter, it was the label on the package that aroused the fear. My taking a break isn’t for protection, it is more for personal balancing. I am getting too wrapped up when a label on an envelope sends me into a minor anxiety. Ridiculous I know, but necessary. Take a break for as long as you need to do so. You certainly have contributed wonderfully here. I am not too worried about this site because of what it is all about and I figure the church will go after Ray and hawkgrrl before they come after me. They are like the bird in the cage that miners take down in the mines. They will be the first to die. Thanks for taking one for the team if the time comes. Old-Timer wrote:No, cwald got attention from specific people for various things. He would have gotten crap even if he hadn’t been posting here; posting here was just one thing that those specific people didn’t like.
His case is unique and . . . unique. He can share more or not, but he didn’t get singled out for special attention primarily because he was posting here.
I got singled out because of my association with friends in Cache Valley who knew John Dehlin. My family members were in high church leadership callings, SP, Bishop, HC…and were instructed by at least a GA, to look out for mormon leaders who were starting a new middle way movement. I was an EQP at the time.
They used quotes from me that i posted on “john dehlins” staylds website, as well as NOM and facebook as evidence of my apostacy.
It was a family matter, that formed a cancer because I have family that is in leadership position who are close to Holland and that was dealing with John Dehlin “movement” and mass apostacy during the scare of 2011.
I was threatened with church discipline. I walked away from the church.
I had no contact with the church really until two weeks ago.
I got “called in” in by the BP who I don’t really even know.
It was a very civil mtg. He asked me to help with some community project to help the poor, sponsored by the church. I said yes, but knew this was not what the meeting was about. That was the same week I found out that a family member had contacted Glenn Ostlund about my Beer Snob Podcast, and that JD (which I’m connected to regardless because of personal friends and a family SP who all live in Cache Valley) and that KK and JD and kevin Kloosterman, etc etc had been contacted by local leaders.
Coincidence? You make the call.
I’m a nobody…but have been caught up in this because of family church leaders dealing with John Dehlin.
That is the way I see it.
The end.
Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
mom3 wrote:I, I, I, was all I kept thinking as I ripped the envelope open. I slid my hand inside and found … hosiery.
😆
LOL is right! Thanks for the laugh.
I guess part of what’s so dismaying to me about all of this is that nothing happens in a vacuum. It’s the person in question, his/her bishop…. and a cast of other characters. I know someone who talked with her bishop about her involvement with OW and her Facebook posts, and everything was fine. Then other people (all women, as far as she knows) started complaining to the bishop about the posts she had already discussed with him. Suddenly things aren’t fine and her temple recommend is taken away. Someone might say, well, that’s the way it works – once there’s evidence that your activities are causing stress, they are reevaluated. Okay….. But these people weren’t saying that they were being hurt, misled or persuaded by her; they just plain didn’t like what she said. It’s not just that every bishop will draw different lines; the same bishop will
redrawhis own lines. Once you post something on the Internet…it never really goes away. Your protection is anonymity (unless you tell people your username or reveal too much in posts), and the vast volumes of websites and blogs and data on the Internet making you a microscopic needle in an ENORMOUS haystack to find or worry about. Here are some situations I could see that would be concerning:
1) You lead a movement against the church or participate in public with groups against the church, and post about it online admitting your involvement;
2) You have relationship problems with family or a spouse, and they come looking for fodder to fuel their case against you, even if they think they are doing it out of love, and they know you post on this site, and want to use the words in an “intervention” type way to get you to admit you have what they think is a serious problem;
3) You want to function in high profile leadership callings or have a temple recommend publicly stating one commitment, but tell others privately or get caught living different views and actions such as breaking the law of chastity, Word of Wisdom, tithing or apostasy that a leader needs evidence to demonstrate in worthiness interviews your involvement here is not what you verbally say in public.
Otherwise, random posting of thoughts on a website is never going to be monitored just for the sake of catching members who think different.
But when a threat exists that motivates someone to spend time looking for evidence of something…what you post here and out there can be used in any way others see fit.
This makes so little sense to me. Someone, help me to understand the dynamic of it. There is no specific belief criteria for fellowship in the church. I’m not required to believe in any specific doctrine to maintain my membership (Temple Recommend would be a different story). I post my opinions in lots of places and I use my actual name. If my Bishop were to frequent the same boards we might even find ourselves discussing points of doctrine together.
This isn’t (as I understand it) the issue that we’re talking about that involves KK and JD. Nobody in the church is upset about what they believe. As far as I can tell, they are facing church discipline for actively campaigning to coerce the church to conform to their beliefs in contradiction to the doctrines put forward by the Prophet and Apostles. In KK’s case, she claims that they got the doctrines wrong and should reverse course. In JD’s case, he claims the Church is completely wrong and we should all consider either leaving it or converting it (or at least converting our participation in it) to a social society. In both cases it’s the campaigning and coercion that they are being disciplined for. Long before the disciplinary councils were scheduled, each was told what behaviors were deemed unacceptable and were invited to discontinue them. Disciplinary councils could not possibly come as a surprise. Nobody gets ambushed by a letter out of the blue.
Now obviously I’ve got some of this stuff completely wrong or I would better understand what everyone is talking about. Somebody set me straight?
[ Admin Note: Read the current, rather long thread about John and Kate and comment there. The link is: http://forum.staylds.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=5608 church0333 wrote:I am not too worried about this site because of what it is all about and I figure the church will go after Ray and hawkgrrl before they come after me. They are like the bird in the cage that miners take down in the mines. They will be the first to die. Thanks for taking one for the team if the time comes.
Well, thanks for the nightmares!
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