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My stake Leadership has kept their distance from me for some time. I have sent suggestions and projects I have worked on but I have gotten very little response (outside the training I did a few years back that was received well by the Bishops but very hesitantly and skeptically by the stake….. until recently A councelor in the SP informed me about 4 months ago that they were running into several members of the stake losing faith and having a faith crisis. He asked me to come to his home and share with him thoughts on how to address it. I went and we spent 2 hours talking about what could be done and how leaders could better respond.
I sent him a plan of action that I would recommend. 3 months went by and nothing was said. Then a few days ago I get a message from SP Exec Sec asking me to come to the stake this coming Sunday at 8:00 am to discuss this issue.
My questions for those here as I want to be as prepared and as precise as I can be. There won’t be enough time to help them see how “we” feel or felt in our faith transition. For the most part it is too much to ask that others having not gone through a hard faith transition, to understand us. So I need to focus on what can be done.
Here is my list. Please help me add to it.
1.) Every Leader should be familiar with the new Gospel Topics articles so as to understand the dynamic shift the Church has made in teaching our history and Doctrine
2.) Recognize the gospel is inherantly more flexible than most members think. (WOW interpretations ex: rumcake; Tithing is gross, net, surplus; aspects of the gospel can be taken figuratively; views on Evolution and age of Earth differ, plus many others)
3.) need to allow more than “knowing” but also Faith, hope, and belief. Also allow others to have doubts and to not accuse them of being less than due to their doubts.
4.) need someone out front who others can see understands their journey and who they can trust enough to go to and talk openly to (someone like myself though there are others in the stake who can do the same)
5.) encourage members to seek truth and to ask questions. Allow members to grasp that some answers and information are found outside LDS.org and church materials
What am I missing?
The list is good. I’m sure they are aware, but pointing out that access to information is a big part of all this. There is no way to put the genie back in the bottle. Please let me know how it goes. I have a Stake calling and have been thinking a lot about approaching my SP and offering to help with those they encounter going through this. I think Stakes should definitely create a safe space for people to talk through this without being judged. The fact that your SP is thinking about this means that its an issue they are deeply concerned about.
If you have any materials or presentations that you don’t mind sharing, I would love to see them.
Best of luck,
SBRed
I agree, the list is good. If there is some way you could encourage that this message comes across the pulpit (perhaps in stake or ward conferences) that would be great. Having a calling similar to SBRed, I’d also like to know how it goes. Sunbelt, I have done several firesides on faith crisis and have a several powerpoints prepared plus an information packet. http://www.mormondiscussionpodcast.org/2013/01/faith-crisis-training-for-church-leaders/ http://www.mormondiscussionpodcast.org/products/ email me off here for the packet.
First thank you for the effort and the time I know it takes to do this. There is another thing which I am becoming increasingly aware of. Is that many people are leaving on unrelated history topics. I hear(from the horses mouth) 2 primary causes for this. 1- I guess. You would call gossip and overbearingness. They didn’t are not aware of history issues yet but had their membership cancelled because of too many people in the priesthood leader ship talking about their problems from one leadership to another about personal issues problems not a church problem that they didn’t want known or people preaching to them about after they told them non of their business.
The 2nd is consciousness, they are bothered by the churches increasing political pressure at church meetings, frequent announcement referrals on how they should stand on certain issues by referring to what to read as policy.
In other words many are tired of living their life at home and priesthood leadership running interference with those personal lives at home(not respecting boundaries even after they tell them no).
About 20 in the ward past 1 1/2 years have left over these things that I know of. They feel suffocated and feel the only way to ease the suffocation is for the brethren to back off and not share tiger problem around with other authorities when their issues are not effecting other church members.
So I guess respecting boundaries and not micro-managing is a issue that I am seeing that is looking as big as history.
I’m not sure how that plays out into talking and implementation though. Or if it’s a concern over there. But I find it common in several geographical areas.
These issues that have increased in the last few years have caused sacrament attendance to plummet to 19%. After verbal confrontation by the member to priesthood authorities during church after bring tired of these issues.
I’m glad they are seeing the strength in you to be able to do this. It warms my heart! Quote:
1.) Every Leader should be familiar with the new Gospel Topics articles so as to understand the dynamic shift the Church has made in teaching our history and DoctrineCHECK. Also, make sure they distribute Uchdorfts talks, Wirthin’s Concern for the One. I’m sure others can add to the list of talks whose main message is acceptance of people who are burnt out, doubting, or suffer from leadership worship etcetera.
Quote:2.) Recognize the gospel is inherantly more flexible than most members think. (WOW interpretations ex: rumcake; Tithing is gross, net, surplus; aspects of the gospel can be taken figuratively; views on Evolution and age of Earth differ, plus many others)
Good. But I would lace this with talks meant to reduce judgmentalism toward others who take the flexible views on these issues. Mormons are VERY judgmental and it prevents open dialogue about doubts that leaders NEED to hear if they really want to know why people aren’t showing up at church, or are in a faith crisis.
Quote:3.) need to allow more than “knowing” but also Faith, hope, and belief. Also allow others to have doubts and to not accuse them of being less than due to their doubts.
Yep – curb the judgmentalism.
Quote:4.) need someone out front who others can see understands their journey and who they can trust enough to go to and talk openly to (someone like myself though there are others in the stake who can do the same)
I guess. I personally wouldn’t take advantage of this resource as there is a strong communication link through the priesthood line.
Quote:5.) encourage members to seek truth and to ask questions. Allow members to grasp that some answers and information are found outside LDS.org and church materials
Not sure about this. I don’t think the leaders would accept it if described that way. The culture is that you don’t question things openly at church.
Quote:What am I missing?
1. Avoid encouraging leadership worship. this only makes people fall harder when they experience leaders who make mistakes.
2. BE APPRECIATIVE. Quote BKP who said in WW training that members should not be viewed as resources simply to staff the church. Realize that even though it’s the Lord’s church and that we are “called by inspiration”, people need appreciation for what they do. And this means compassion when they ask for releases, and to avoid treating members as employees. I raise this only because some of us have been very dedicated and then get really burnt out. — former HPGL…
Another reason to love your efforts DB. I really do. I will send good thoughts and prayers that things continue. I have a couple of additional thoughts – I don’t know if you’ll get time …
1. Christ centered worship. Long before I ever knew of faith crisis/church history etc., my Grandmother explained to me why she never attended the Mormon church. She had been baptized because of where she lived, an orphanage in Salt Lake City. Her number one complaint was not enough Jesus. I was young when she told me this, as I observed over time, she was right. So many things are more important than Jesus Christ in our LDS world. Everything from being The One True Church, having The Only accurate scripture, the Only real plan for Salvation and so on. These all may be accurate – none of these though, count if we have no Christ.
2. 3 Nephi 18:22-26 and a few more after that. All Christs words on including believers and non-believers in our worship/religion/etc.
People in life are looking for hope whether it’s in doctrine, theology, theory, or idea. When they join a group they hope the group is really the answer to their pain and longing. Their questions are answered by our actions. If we value our We’re #1 Status cause our guy prayed in a field over their hurting hearts, they won’t stay. We need to return to the practices of the Master and eat from the bread of life.
Wow – I guess I had something to say. Good luck. Thank you for asking our input. You’ll do great. I will keep my prayers and thoughts your direction.
You probably implied this in your #3 but you could explicitly reiterate that a faith crisis isn’t always about sin, laziness, a weak initial testimony, etc. The traditional approaches to solving people’s issues don’t work. I.e. don’t ask someone going through a FC if they are reading their scriptures and praying. That’s not the solution to everything.
When people come to you (a leader) over a faith crisis LISTEN don’t talk. The overwhelming majority of the meeting should be you listening and offering unconditional love as the response. The leader would do well to recognize that a person going through a FC probably hasn’t been able to talk to anyone about it for a long, long time. It’s all bottled up. They need an opportunity to get things off their chest without fear of judgment.
I’ve got others but they are pipe dreams.
Pres. Uchtdorf talked directly about not assuming apostasy, sin, laziness, etc. when people struggle. (The “It’s not that simple” line is from that talk.) I want to second the suggestion re: Christ-centered worship, but I want to phrase it as, “
Understand and insist that each meeting fulfill its primary purpose.” That is a soapbox issue for me, since I believe it is one of the most important, transformative things a local leader can do. If you want my expanded thoughts on what I mean and how I see the purposes of the Sunday meetings, the following post addresses that topic:
“
The Purposes of Our Sunday Meetings: Some Things Aren’t Appropriate for Sacrament Meeting” ( http://thingsofmysoul.blogspot.com/2014/01/the-purposes-of-our-sunday-meetings.html Also, try to eliminate all unnecessary meetings, especially by using modern technology to gather and disseminate information that doesn’t require traditional, face-to-face communication, as much as possible. Learn to use video conference calls as an alternative, in appropriate situations.
Great clarification Ray – Quote:“Understand and insist that that each meeting fulfill its primary purpose.”
Chieko Okazaki mentioned her desire to have the Relief Society or Women’s Meeting have lessons more attune to the needs of women or the women in the ward.
In the fantasy plan – Sacrament Meeting would be Christ centered. There are so many ways to do this.
Second hour – communal history, scripture, geneology, even service hours
Third hour – Group appropriate lessons, selected by the direct ward leaders who lead the organization and know the needs.
I’m going with your plan. Where do I get my “Vote for Ray” Button? I’m teasing and serious at the same time.
mom3 wrote:Great clarification Ray –
Quote:“Understand and insist that that each meeting fulfill its primary purpose.”
Chieko Okazaki mentioned her desire to have the Relief Society or Women’s Meeting have lessons more attune to the needs of women or the women in the ward.
In the fantasy plan – Sacrament Meeting would be Christ centered. There are so many ways to do this.
Second hour – communal history, scripture, geneology, even service hours
Third hour – Group appropriate lessons, selected by the direct ward leaders who lead the organization and know the needs.
I’m going with your plan. Where do I get my “Vote for Ray” Button? I’m teasing and serious at the same time.
My only problem is local leaders are often oblivious to community needs. I have more lessons at the local level that simply are an effort to take up the time rather than though out intereactive discussions about serious issues within the ward
I’m sure you’ll do a great job Bill. Regarding understanding I agree with what you said but I would add one word that should be mentioned, a word that you and so many others have used and I believe is the key to what causes faith crises:
Quote:Expectations
So many prominent names have framed the topic in this way, I know you are familiar. Even the LDS.org essay page on the BoA has a link to a BYU fireside where the speaker is framing the issue in terms of expectations. Everything else relates to it:
–> When members expect answers to be simple, as well as justifications (“they left because they were offended”) it is a problem.
–> Perpetuating “simple” or “absolute” perspectives are a problem, but these align with some members current expectations – thus the difficulty.
I feel strongly that virtually all discussions of this topic with faithful members must revolve around aligning expectations with reality.
Thanks Everyone. I tried to add as much as I could of the general ideas spoken about and I will let you know how this goes. Bill
DBMormon wrote:Thanks Everyone. I tried to add as much as I could of the general ideas spoken about and I will let you know how this goes.
Bill
Generally anything that facilitates better understanding and compassion between people is progress and a accomplishment.
Prayers are with you.
DB – Quote:My only problem is local leaders are often oblivious to community needs. I have more lessons at the local level that simply are an effort to take up the time rather than though out intereactive discussions about serious issues within the ward
You are right, I just had a momentary thread jack. Never Mind!
:clap:
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