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July 28, 2014 at 11:23 pm #209067
Anonymous
GuestHi Everyone – I haven’t finished this entirely, but what I have read I really like. If it turns out as good as it has, I am keeping this one in my “My Mormonism” Binder. Let me know what you think? https://www.lds.org/ensign/2014/07/young-adults/becoming-perfect-in-christ?lang=eng July 28, 2014 at 11:47 pm #288295Anonymous
GuestI also really liked it. July 29, 2014 at 12:39 am #288296Anonymous
Guest:thumbup:
July 29, 2014 at 3:15 am #288297Anonymous
GuestI’m not getting the Ensign right now. What things did you like about it? July 29, 2014 at 4:31 am #288298Anonymous
GuestI like that Elder Gong is addressing the topic of perfectionism. I like that he is making an effort to encourage those of us who consistently feel unacceptable to God or unworthy. I wish it was more of a focus in the church. For the few times I hear that mistakes are allowed and we don’t need to be perfect, there are a thousand more times I hear words like, unworthy, weak, keep all the commandments, unclean. He talks about God’s grace and his love being freely given but then uses the scripture in Moroni that teaches the grace of God is only sufficient after we deny ourselves of all ungodliness and love God with all our might and mind. To me this means it is very hard to receive God’s grace. I’ve heard other talks from GA’s that teach God’s grace is very difficult to attain. Grace is God’s mercy. At what point is it no longer mercy if we have to be completely righteous before we can enjoy it?
July 29, 2014 at 4:44 am #288299Anonymous
GuestHaven, I didn’t get that message from him. What I read is him saying that grace helps us become perfect in Christ – and that we can become perfect when we deny ourselves of all ungodliness (that grace is sufficient, meaning enough, for that purpose) – but that grace makes it possible for us to be blessed DURING our journey toward perfection in Christ, even though we make mistakes and feel unworthy – that we aren’t unworthy of grace, after all. In other words, I read him as saying that it isn’t an impossible standard – that we shouldn’t beat ourselves up for being human – that grace is sufficient to take us to perfection in Christ.
July 29, 2014 at 11:30 am #288300Anonymous
GuestDaeruin wrote:I’m not getting the Ensign right now. What things did you like about it?
In some ways I don’t know why anyone except those who refuse to embrace technology subscribe to the Ensign anymore. It’s free online and is available up to a couple weeks earlier. Here’s a link to the entire July edition: and one to the article under discussion:https://www.lds.org/ensign/2014/07?lang=enghttps://www.lds.org/ensign/2014/07?lang=eng” class=”bbcode_url”> https://www.lds.org/ensign/2014/07/young-adults/becoming-perfect-in-christ?lang=eng ” class=”bbcode_url”> https://www.lds.org/ensign/2014/07/young-adults/becoming-perfect-in-christ?lang=eng I like the article and see it’s application to most members.
July 29, 2014 at 5:54 pm #288301Anonymous
GuestHaven wrote:He talks about God’s grace and his love being freely given but then uses the scripture in Moroni that teaches the grace of God is only sufficient after we deny ourselves of all ungodliness and love God with all our might and mind. To me this means it is very hard to receive God’s grace. I’ve heard other talks from GA’s that teach God’s grace is very difficult to attain. Grace is God’s mercy. At what point is it no longer mercy if we have to be completely righteous before we can enjoy it?
I picked this out as well. I consider talks like this as bridges. Brad Wilcox had a similar one published in the Ensign about a year ago. Essentially they preach a more merciful and accepting version of Jesus – but then they try to tie it back to the body of LDS scriptures and 150 years of LDS perfectionism bent and it places definate limits on what they just said.
Realistically though Elder Gong and Brother Wilcox can’t say that church leaders have been wrong in their teaching and emphasis on doing. That would be too radical and would never get published in the Ensign. The best that they can do is talk about individuals that have failed to develop a personal relationship and have failed to feel God’s love. The doing part is good and necessary but it must also be accompanied by an internal love (for self and others), forgiveness (for self and others), and mercy (for self and others) in order to maintain the proper balance. This way church leaders get off the hook for contributing to a harsh performance based environment (which as I’ve said before could be seen as denying the power of the atonement) and people that are in desperate need for a little self acceptance and self forgiveness can find it in small doses in talks like these.
I like the baby steps the talk takes. It doesn’t go as far as I would like it to (I am totally there with you) but I am trying to accentuate the positive step forward (even if I see it as incomplete).
July 30, 2014 at 3:36 am #288302Anonymous
GuestGood point, DarkJedi. I didn’t even think of searching for it online. Thanks to everyone for elaborating. July 31, 2014 at 4:31 am #288303Anonymous
GuestThank you for your thoughts, Ray and Roy. Ray, I like how you interpret the “deny yourselves of all ungodliness” verse. That’s a view that I can buy into. Thank you. Roy, thanks for validating my concern. This is the first article I’ve read from a GA in about a year. I’ve avoided the Ensign and all church manuals because I’m so easily upset and super sensitive about the church. I think it’s finally getting a little easier because I only became a little frustrated reading this article instead of angry. Yay!
:clap: It was good practice for me because I’m going to try to go to church Sunday. It’s been over a year.July 31, 2014 at 5:37 am #288304Anonymous
GuestGod Be With You Haven as you go. A couple others have recently returned to church attendance, perhaps they will chime in and give you some extra support. Sincerely – Good Luck. I do hope it goes well. July 31, 2014 at 6:48 pm #288305Anonymous
Guestmom3 wrote:God Be With You Haven as you go. A couple others have recently returned to church attendance, perhaps they will chime in and give you some extra support. Sincerely – Good Luck. I do hope it goes well.
I like going to SM because it is totally acceptable to be paying more attention to my kids than the speakers. Then I go to my calling as a primary teacher where it is expected that I pay more attention to my class full of 4 year olds then to the presenters. SS and Priesthood were sometimes very frustrating for me.
August 1, 2014 at 1:40 pm #288306Anonymous
GuestI think your seeing a real shift in Mormonism on several fronts. The Grace/Works issues has undergone a major transformation. When I look at how I was taught Grace (almost not at all) and the emphasis taught me on Works, It is night and day difference from what is taught by the Church at the top today. When I look at the effect that people like Stephen Robinson, Robert Millet, and especially Brad Wilcox of late….. the Church has gone from making grace taboo to Grace being emphasized as the key. IT is my favorite subject and I am so appreciative of this paradigm shift.
August 1, 2014 at 6:06 pm #288307Anonymous
GuestDB – I love the family photo. Really cool. August 2, 2014 at 10:04 am #288308Anonymous
Guestmom3 wrote:DB – I love the family photo. Really cool.
Thanks… I am kind of fond of those in it!
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