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  • #209144
    Anonymous
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    One of the issues that originally brought me to StayLDS was my struggles with the cultural aspects of the Church (the doctrinal and historical stuff not so much). It has puzzled me for years that some of my most painful or frustrating experiences would have been church-related. This board has been helped me process a great deal of this. It’s good to know that others have similar frustrations and (in some cases) even worse experiences to report. I came across the following which is a bit long but I found it tremendously helpful in explaining what happens as we gather in our families, wards and communities. The quote comes from Don Cupitt’s book Above Us Only Sky:

    Quote:

    Nevertheless, because we are so sociable we do tend to assume that human beings must be happiest in their most intimate relationships. We want to idealize small face-to-face communities–the family, the village, the congregation, the residential community, the religious society…Often we seek personal happiness through membership of some such ideal community.

    …And often we are disappointed, as we discover that the society we have joined is riven by feuding factions, by power struggles, by backbiting and bullying. Perhaps this is particularly true of academic and of religious societies, which have a strong image of themselves as conflict-free, ‘cloistered’, calm and supportive. It seems that Sartre was right: –Hell is other people, and the closer people get to each other, the more they are in danger of getting locked into attitudes of frigid mutual detestation. Religious bodies are especially Hellish in this way.

    Why? It seems that in the face of life’s uncertainty, death’s uncertainty, and the instability of all valuations, we feel desperately insecure and threatened. Everyone else feels the same. To alleviate our distress and anxiety, we all try to gain some relative advantage vis-a-vis other human beings. We want power and authority over others, but if that is not readily available, we’ll settle for recognition by them; and if that is not available either, we will settle for respect, the absolute minimum. Unfortunately, all the others seem determined to overvalue themselves and undervalue me. So society becomes…a war by each against everyone else for social dominance and recognition. Everyone is bitterly resentful, eveyone sees himself as a victim of injustice. We join some religious or ethnic liberation group in the hope of finding sweeter and more harmonious relations there, but unfortunately the same conflicts recur.

    #289232
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Great quote, Gerald.

    I would say this points out how important our expectations are with our experience. Managing expectations can be helpful in reducing disappointment. We must embrace reality, not wish for utopia.

    I would also say that internal happiness is the key goal, independent of others. But relationships can be such a huge key in finding happiness. And so the respect or admiration of others are a nice stroke to our ego…but they are not the root of our peace and happiness, and those who seek to constantly stroke their ego chase an elusive and fleeting type of satisfaction.

    The church is made of mortals, trying their best to live the ideals. And all are imperfect. And all fall short.

    But having a tribe to practice while realizing my own imperfections is a good thing. A sandbox to play in with others, so we can all learn, and I think support each other, can be helpful rather than pursuing enlightenment and peace as a hermit.

    There are really, really good and happy people at church. I gravitate towards them, and try to add more than I take from the society.

    #289233
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Thanks for sharing that, Gerald. I appreciate it.

    #289234
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Excellent quote. . I totally concur. I have to remind myself sometimes that what I really want is an island of my own to live on. Only then would I be truly happy – as would everyone else. Sad fact – it’s not going to happen. Quotes like these can carry us farther.

    #289235
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Excellent. Thanks!

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