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In conference there was a GA who commented that when he was in the Stake Presidency (SP) he would get calls from people asking which Ward was the best to move into. He commented that only once did he get a call from someone asking which Ward would be the his family would be most needed. I’ve heard that story quoted a lot now in talks, and from other people in conversation and Sunday lessons. I never bought into that approach to choosing a Ward in the past, now, or in the future. it’s as if people are implying that if you do your homework before moving into a ward that fits your tastes, you are being egocentric or ignoring the needs of other people.
It’s GREAT for the church to sublimate all of your personal needs to the church’s needs, but I think people need to realize that the ward you move into DOES matter — particularly if you have impressional teenagers and children who need strong programs, or an adult family member with faith or commitment issues. That approach of moving where you are most needed also ignores the responsibility I feel the church has to provide sufficient resources to ensure the Wards have decent programs. A key problem for some Wards is lack of people, but the Stake keeps splitting Wards to prevent having to invest in new buildings, for example.
It also ignores the social aspect of the church — something I don’t really see being looked at seriously. Strong relationships at church help people stay active because they feel they are part of a community. And if a family needs that kind of belongingness, then they should try to find a Ward where they feel accepted and bond well with other people in that Ward.
So, I reject the implications of that story. I believe it may be very appropriate for certain people, but to promulgate it as a one size fits all attitude is dangerous.
It seems very common for people who move here to scope it out beforehand and choose which ward. Within a three ward area we have a major medical center with medical students/residents, a state university, and a couple nationally known corporations which regularly hire professionals (engineers and such). Our ward is the middle of the three. Typically the family or at least husband/wife will visit beforehand and check out a at least couple of the wards, sometimes the husband moves ahead of the family and stays somewhere temporarily while ward shopping and then buying or renting in the ward they choose when the rest of the family arrives. Judging by which of the wards seem to be most and least popular, where people feel like they’re needed has little influence. It seems to have much more to do with dynamics of the leadership, size/vitality of the Primary and youth programs, and just general friendliness. Frankly my ward, although perfectly average (but aging) seems to usually end up on the short end of the stick and is least chosen. If I were looking at some of the factors above, I would probably choose one of the others as well, although we do have a good Scouting program in our ward. I think it’s nice that someone asked where they’re most needed and perhaps if we were retiring and willing to serve wherever we might ask that. Otherwise I think I’d so what I see others do – which one seems to fit us and serve our needs.
I have evaluated where to live according to the needs of my kids. When that included multiple possible wards, I have tried to leave it up to inspiration, fate, divine intervention, luck, whatever. I’ve never tried to analyze the demographics of the ward – but I don’t fault anyone for doing so, especially when children are involved. I am committed to picking the unit where we are needed the most once we have no more children at home.
I have a different take. The guy calling the SP and asking him where his family is most needed? Sounds like someone brown nosing the SP. Sounds like it worked. Of course that says a lot more about me than it does about the person that called the SP, it’s good to know that about myself. :shifty: I mean I find it strange that anyone would ever call an SP for advice about which ward to move to. It’s a foreign concept to me. If you really have the “I’ll go where you want me to go” attitude just move wherever you feel prompted to move and make it work. There’s no need to advertize that desire to a leader.
If I were on the other end, if I were the SP and I received a call from someone asking which ward they should move to… that would have to be my advice. Take the matter to the lord and move to wherever you feel the lord is prompting you to move. What other answer is there? Any other answer and you run the risk of ranking wards, probably a big no-no for a church leader.
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In our area home prices seem to rule the day when it comes to ward selection. There’s a mass exodus to areas where you can get a newer house that is twice the size for the same price as a smaller, older house in other ward boundaries. Pure economics. That leaves some units with a staggeringly large YM/YM and primary while other wards may have very few youth because the ward makeup is principally older, childless couples. It’s those young families that are just staring out that need the large, affordable housing. I’ve also seen things like school quality drive the decision of where to move. I’ve got to think that for most people ward quality would take a backseat to those two factors.
nibbler wrote:In our area home prices seem to rule the day when it comes to ward selection. There’s a mass exodus to areas where you can get a newer house that is twice the size for the same price as a smaller, older house in other ward boundaries. Pure economics. That leaves some units with a staggeringly large YM/YM and primary while other wards may have very few youth because the ward makeup is principally older, childless couples. It’s those young families that are just staring out that need the large, affordable housing. I’ve also seen things like school quality drive the decision of where to move. I’ve got to think that for most people ward quality would take a backseat to those two factors.
Nibbler, you are describing the ward and area I live in. The price of homes and taxes in the main county where our large city is doesn’t make a lot of sense for our family, so we moved to a southern suburb. You can get almost double the square footage, a new home,s chools are better, taxes are less than what you pay in the city, and the commute is only an extra 20 minutes or so. Our ward is giant (we had 420 people in sacrament the other week). We have about 70 youth and every week it seems like a new family has moved in. It is bonkers.
We recently did a ward realignment and the ward I used to live in (we were renting) has had most of the young families move out and buy houses in outer areas where housing is cheaper and schools are better. That ward has a lot of needs and most of the younger families are renting which means at some point they will be moving on. Makes things tough for that ward.
Quote:I have a different take. The guy calling the SP and asking him where his family is most needed? Sounds like someone brown nosing the SP. Sounds like it worked. Of course that says a lot more about me than it does about the person that called the SP, it’s good to know that about myself.
I agree. Furthermore, the guy asking where he is most needed sounds very arrogant to me. He assumes his family will be the strength of the new ward to help lead them out of the desert of bumpkinery.
I think there’s a broader point being made with this irritating anecdote, too: we are supposed to give and give and give to our ward/our stake/the Church, and never take. Which has always made me wonder: if we are all giving, and no one is taking, won’t we run out of opportunities to give pretty quickly? You can’t have someone doing good works without someone else being on the receiving end, right? I refuse to judge the person calling the SP. I have known quite a few people over the decades (particularly from my time in local leadership callings) who made calls like that out of nothing but a genuine desire to serve and help others. Frankly, I also don’t want to be judgmental over something like that. As I said in my previous comment, my wife and I have made all of our previous move decisions based on what we felt would be best for our kids – but I have contacted the local Bishop every time to get a feel for the area and ask for advice on where we might live within the ward boundaries. It was the prudent thing to do, especially when I needed help moving our things into the house once we arrived.
:silent: 😆 (That last part was for Silent Dawning, in case anyone wondered.)
🙂 Old-Timer wrote:I refuse to judge the person calling the SP.
I can get behind that. Still, I see the act of calling people’s attention to the phenomenon as introducing judgment into the equation. In the story I get the sense that the person that called the SP asking which ward needed them the most is being elevated above the people that called asking which ward was the best one to move into. Someone in the audience may have actually called to ask which ward was the best ward and they might come out of that conference feeling pretty low.
I don’t mind bringing the person in the story back down to earth with some imagined brown nosing, I don’t want to see them get puffed up with pride or anything.
:angel: Besides, it helps make them more human and helps make me feel better after that one time I called the SP to ask him which ward was the best ward to move into.😆 It’s hard to put my serious hat on at times. Life is far too short to take much of anything so seriously.
Yeah, some behaviors are better than others but there’s probably a better way to teach “ask not what your country can do for you…” without potentially throwing real people under the bus. I guess progress is supposed to sting a little. Nothing like a real world example I suppose.
Quote:there’s probably a better way to teach “ask not what your country can do for you…” without potentially throwing real people under the bus
Yup, but citing examples to make a point or teach a principle is part of what humans do – and citing “good examples” always creates those who might be seen as “bad examples”. I think it’s the intent that counts in situations like the one mentioned, even as I understand that the road to Hell is paved with good intentions. Otherwise, we need to insist on never using examples with real people, and that ain’t going to happen – and shouldn’t happen.
I like Quote:“Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country while doing what is best for yourself at the same time”.
I get the point of the original post. I’ll even add that it might be presumptuous that a SP knows the positive qualities of a complete stranger enough to recommend a particular ward. However, I must say that once I was in a leadership position in a geographically large and economically poor ward, when a wealthy and talented lawyer and his large family moved into the ward. He made the deliberate decision to move to a disadvantaged ward so his kids could experience some diversity and so that they could make a difference in the ward. We were all genuinely thrilled. The family as a whole probably grew more from the experience than if they had moved into a neighboring homogeneous ward. My poor, small ward also benefitted a great deal. A win-win in this instance.
A former bishop used this parable once: While sitting on his front porch a car pulled up and asked the man about the town. The driver of the car said they were looking to move and wanted to know if this town was a good place to live. He said the town they wanted to move away from was not a nice lace, full of gossipers and people who didn’t care about each other. They despised living there. The man on the porch said “This town is just like that one” and the car drove off.
A while later another car stopped, asking a similar question. This driver said his old town was a very nice place to live and they were looking for a similar town. The old town was full of people who were always helping each other and truly loved each other. The man on the porch said “This town is just like that.”
Moral of the story: We get what we expect to get.
DarkJedi wrote:A former bishop used this parable once:
While sitting on his front porch a car pulled up and asked the man about the town. The driver of the car said they were looking to move and wanted to know if this town was a good place to live. He said the town they wanted to move away from was not a nice lace, full of gossipers and people who didn’t care about each other. They despised living there. The man on the porch said “This town is just like that one” and the car drove off.
A while later another car stopped, asking a similar question. This driver said his old town was a very nice place to live and they were looking for a similar town. The old town was full of people who were always helping each other and truly loved each other. The man on the porch said “This town is just like that.”
Moral of the story: We get what we expect to get.
I think that’s true to some extent, but you have to consider personalities. I’ve done a lot of work and received a lot of training in one of the competitors for the Myers Briggs personality test. The Strengthsfinder assessment. There is one trait called “Responsibility” that some people have. It’s characterized by strong follow through when you agree to do something. I have it. When I work for protracted periods of time with people who don’t keep their word, people with Responsibility shut down and move on to other places where there are more reliable people. It describes me exactly. Conversely, when I’m around people with good follow-through, it energizes me. Such a situation activated me to the point I ended up in full TR status a few years ago. So, even in retirement, if I was Ward shopping, I’d have to look for a Ward that has good execution.
So, one needs to consider one’s own innate personality when deciding on a particular Ward. And wards do vary in their overall commitment and other traits. Some wards ARE better than others. The Bishop’s parable seems to further the cultural norm of blaming everything on the member of the church, rather than recognizing that systemic/local cultural factors It’s true, that we often do “see the world as we are”, but that is only 1/2 of the equation, and the Bishop’s parable misses that, IMHO.
I didn’t mean to imply that the parable was a hard and fast rule – no parables are and they each have a breakdown point. Likewise, I have lived in a ward where there were several long established families who dominated everything, where newcomers (including converts) were not especially welcomed with open arms and remained outsiders despite their best efforts, and where it was always the same few in the leadership positions (I have referred to it as an oligarchy before). Life circumstances brought me there, however, and it was other life circumstances that allowed me to move – and I was quite happy to move. That was way before my faith crisis, but that I was an outsider 5 years later when I did marry in the temple and move, that I spent most of my time in Primary and Scouts despite being a recently returned missionary and despite it being a small ward in need, and despite the clear favoritism shown to others by the leadership, I remained active, believing and faithful in the height of those TBM days. My new ward (where I still live) was and is much better in so many ways, and I think my faith crisis was inevitable – regardless of which one of these wards I resided in when it was time. In truth, I think wards, and even the church as a whole, have little to do with how we navigate our own individual paths – really only as much influence as we allow. There is no question that there are “better” and “worse” wards – but some of that has to do with our own personal perceptions and expectations – I’m sure those in my old ward who were and are part of the inner circle also thought their ward was wonderful and wouldn’t want to live anywhere else.
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