What leader should say to gay/lesbian youth

Wow, tough one RR. There have been two young men who grew up in our ward and as young adults came out as gay. I knew both of these young men very well, serving as their YMP and as a counselor in their bishopric. I did not suspect either was gay, they kept it well hidden. Both are currently living with a significant other of the same sex and both are inactive. Both come from strong LDS families, and both are accepted and loved by their families, although I won’t say that either family fully supports them. I also disagree with the church’s stance on SSM. I have stated here before that I don’t see how the church can say being homosexual is not a choice, but you can’t have sex – the sex drive of an individual is not a choice, either. Don’t misinterpret, I do fully support the law of chastity (I don’t believe breaking it is next to murder in severity) but I believe the church needs to allow some outlet for sex among gays – whether that is recognizing SSM as legal but not necessarily religious, or same sex unions or something else on that spectrum. I do not believe asking them to remain celibate for their entire lives is the answer. The answers below are my opinion, not doctrine.

and a youth asks you what they should do if they kissed another boy or girl of their same gender? Is a simple kiss sin and does it require repentance?

Kissing is not sex, although I’m sure it would be frowned upon on Brigham Square. IMO it’s not breaking any commandment to kiss someone else of the same gender and requires no repentance.

What if this youth is sexually attracted to both boys and girls – how can they figure out if they are gay if they can’t “experiment”?

Sadly I don’t know. Again, I support the law of chastity, so activities that are short of breaking that law are OK with me. The dinosaur in the garden there is that what one person considers to be sex might not be what another one considers sex. To me oral sex is sex – but it might be easy to justify (I’ve heard it done) that it isn’t. The same could be true of a variety of things like “making out” or mutual masturbation. I suppose one would have to rely on the Spirit- but be sure it is the Spirit and not church imposed guilt.

how do you explain that you disagree with the notion that a gay or lesbian youth would have to live a life of celibacy if they desire to remain a member of the church in good standing?

I have not had the opportunity to say so to any “live” person (I’ve said it here) but I’d probably just say it. I’d have to give the caveat, however, that this does not give them permission to do whatever they want – I disagree, but it is the official stance of the church. You could share that Elder Christofferson has an active gay brother who lives in a same sex relationship.

What not to do? Definitely don’t condemn them or make them feel like it is a sin to have such attractions/thoughts/feelings. Love them, let them know you are safe to talk to – they need someone they can talk to. Keep their confidence at all costs. Let them know that God loves them inasmuch as you believe God loves his children – or in other words that He does not love them less and Christ’s atonement is just as valid for them as anyone else.

Good point, Ray. I would not express my disagreement with church policy regarding SSM from the pulpit, I would only do so privately or perhaps to point out incorrect interpretation of church policy.

[Admin Note]: DaddyB, your points can be made without equating or comparing homosexuality to pedophilia. That is a comparison that has been used in despicable, terrible ways throughout history and has been (and still is) twisted to slander homosexuals unfairly and inaccurately (since more pedophiles are straight than gay, and it’s not statistically close). It won’t be allowed here.

All such comparisons in any future comments will be deleted without explanation.

[Admin Note]: This thread is about “what a leader should say to gay/lesbian youth” – NOT about the nature of homosexuality or sexual practices. Comments obviously can address those things, IF the comments are focused on the point of the post. However, this thread will NOT turn into just another debate about homosexuality. It will be locked, or comments trying to turn it into such a discussion will be deleted, if the purpose of the post is not honored.

Also, I would tell the youth that kissing is not sin.

Some people can twist it to make it into a sin in their eyes, but kissing is not sin. It also is not against the Law of Chastity, according to ANY definition that is published and used by the LDS Church. The closest thing is the admonition in For the Strength of Youth to avoid “passionate kissing” (which I personally see as one of the most ridiculous things about that pamphlet, for reasons mentioned in the next sentence) – but it is NOT described as sin or breaking the Law of Chastity. If even “passionate kissing” was sin or a violation of the Law of Chastity, every normal member of the Church would have faced disciplinary action prior to marriage. Dispassionate kissing is stupid for anyone whose relationship is past the initial stage and is moving toward serious.

I don’t know why we church members as a group automatically think that if someone is homosexual, they are having sex (or at least want to have sex) virtually all the time. We view them as dirty perverts which then converts into our poor attitude of treating gays and lesbians that is in large part why a) so many of them get kicked out of their home, and b) why the suicide rate is so high amongst them. I’m speaking on the “macro” level here as I know there are individuals within the church who do not think that way.

Roadrunner, my experience with a family member who eventually came out was very troubling to me. He followed Elder Packer’s advice to pray it away, which of course did not and could not happen. He was a very spiritual boy and wanted to do the right thing and the stress caused him various health problems while it was going on. Now he is a well adjusted caring gay man who, not surprisingly, has nothing to do with the church.

I completely agree that you can “experiment” without it becoming sexual. I agree with others here about that kissing is not a sin. Let’s not forget about the ease at which those of us who are heterosexual here knew that we were. The flutter we experienced by holding some girl’s hand we found attractive in middle school and they nervousness we felt when we actually got to talk to her one on one. Nothing to do with sex as we Mormons define it.

Going back to the original question on how they can know whether they are homosexual, I think the first thing to do is not to overact to what they have already done (kissed). The second is to encourage them to remain chaste and committed to living a clean life. The third is to make it clear that you love them as their leader and that you won’t change that view no matter what their sexual orientation is. Finally, if there are outside, professional sources they can be referred to that are unbiased and not LDS (I don’t know if there are), I think that would be helpful.

The church can and does change – all the time. Let’s not forget how its viewpoint on sexual orientation has evolved already. Likewise, let’s not forget that we changed from an organization that preached the evils of monogomay (can you say Brigham Young and Orsan Pratt?) to one fully committed to monogamy with the “Proclamation to the World” to support it.

I believe all people have a place in Heavenly Father’s plan but that we may not understand His plan completely at this time. Our interpretation of his plan as a people and as individuals may change over time. I’m just trying to figure out a way to communicate it meaningfully since I have little experience in the matter.

I am not a ward leader but I believe what you said above is perhaps the best thing to say. We all have a place in the plan of happiness. His marvelous work and a glory encompases the whole world and is larger than we could imagine. The official position of the church represents such a tiny portion of the plan.

I do believe that the road for someone with homosexual feelings is going to be a difficult one. I cannot say why some go through challenging lives while others seem to coast along. Perhaps some are born different to challeng our assumptions and prejudices.

I believe that part of the purpose of our lives is to discover the meaning of our lives for ourself. I promise to love and support this youth in whatever choices, feelings, directions the future may hold as they discover their life journey.

I would also talk to this youth about talking to his parents. Have they already done so? Would they like me to assist? If the youth is agreeable – I would like to provide the parents with all the relevant information about the importance of accepting their child and not over-reacting in a harmful or condemning way (mormonsandgays etc.).

If my child came out as gay today – I would stop attending the LDS church tomorrow. I would try to “trade up” and find a community/activity where my child and I could participate without fear.