Can Prophets make mistakes? FairMormon/Givens’ weigh in

:thumbup: :thumbup: Thanks for sharing.

I thought this addresses a very important issue lately. The Givens address the contradictions we hear (Lord will never lead the church astray in one breath, and then scripture that indicates prophets make mistakes and sin). It’s always complex when they do this, I find, but at least they admitted that prophets make grave mistakes.

For me, the problem is that these ideas have not percolated to the general membership, who generally believe the prophets are to be obeyed without question. The culture is such that everyone believes they are always inspired, sometimes to the point of hero worship. As Spencer W, Kimball said — people weren’t ga-ga over Spencer W. Kimball, they were ga-ga over the office of prophet.

The Givens do make this point:

However, in addition to the aforementioned reasons to doubt that this statement supports the view that prophets cannot make mistakes, Elders Packer and Uchtdorf have given us additional reasons to doubt this conclusion. Elder Uchtdorf said, “This is the Church of Jesus Christ. God will not allow His Church to drift from its appointed course or fail to fulfill its divine destiny.”[vi] Elder Packer added that “…even with the best of intentions, it [the governance of the Church by mortal priesthood holders] does not always work the way it should. Human nature may express itself on occasion, but not to the permanent injury of the work.”[vii] In other words, while leaders can make mistakes, God will not allow the leaders to utterly destroy the work of the latter-day Church or cause the members to lose their opportunity to receive exaltation.

I’m glad there is some recognition of the fallibility of prophets. But for me, it’s hollow that races have gone through their entire lives, and for generations, disadvantaged in the church and for exhaltation (I beleive). Further, the words of the prophets have led me to make some far reaching decisions in my life that have caused me a lot of misery. To say that God wil make it right on some unknown and eternal timeline seems very hollow to me.

The best part of the Givens book, for me, is the part when they said Christ paid the price for the mistakes of the leaders. It’s up to the person who delegated authority to fix the mistakes of the people to whom they delegated. There is some comfort in that, but for the here an now, it seems a bit insufficient when the general, active membership seems to believe that everything the prophets say is right, and tend to slap down people who want to bring balance to the prophet workship we often see.

I just listened to the Mormon Podcast from Givens on the Crucible of Doubt and the discussion on this question. Problem that bothers me is that JS and other early prophets of the lds church did things that we would be excommunicated for today. They seemed to get away with stuff that I think were abominations.

Even Jesus of Nazareth was killed partially because he did and taught things that were abominable to the people among whom he lived and to whom he preached.

I am NOT comparing what Joseph did to what Jesus did, so, please, don’t get upset at a comparison that wasn’t made or intended. I’m just saying pretty much no prophet has been accepted in his own country, so to speak, largely because the people in his own country knew the whole person and not just the limited, sanitized, borderline worshipful portrayal of later generations. Look at how Martin Luther and other Protestant reformers are seen now by so many Christians. Does anyone really think most believers / followers have an objective, accurate, complete portrayal of them?

You could claim leader privilege, the good old “do as I say, not as I do” that people in a position of authority over others fall back on but I think the situation is much more complicated than that.

I doubt that Joseph Smith would consider himself an adulterer or a murderer. The world is also a very different place today. We have to guard against presentism when comparing our day with the past.

I don’t think there are any solid ones but it’s all up to interpretation.

And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Might be enough for some people.

An appeal to the scriptures isn’t really sound anyway, at least in my opinion. There’s a conflict of interest. The scriptures say that a prophet has full authority of god. How do you know? The prophet said so. See, he wrote it down right here… :think:

nibbler, that scripture is something to consider. An expanded version contained in Helaman 10 is the strongest example I’ve found:

…all things shall be done unto thee according to thy word, for thou shalt not ask that which is contrary to my will…ye shall have power over this people, and shall smite the earth with famine, and with pestilence, and destruction, according to the wickedness of this people…Behold, I give unto you power, that whatsoever ye shall seal on earth shall be sealed in heaven; and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven; and thus shall ye have power among this people…

It appears that this is a special situation and God did not grant such power to all prophets. Nephi had proved that he would not ask for anything contrary to God’s will, so he was granted extra authority.