Why Do We Hate/Dislike Them So?

I consider myself a rather compassionate person and ever since I was small I remember automatically trying to put myself in other people’s shoes – think of their perspective.

But I am a bit with Mom on this wondering why TBM’s (sometimes) get under my skin. Most of the time I am content to just see the good in people, but even this last week in High Priests an 80+ year old brother made a comment that was WRONG WRONG (and in fact I am about 99% sure he was lying). I was able to bit my tongue because this brother spouts off something every week and generally it rolls off everyone like water on the back of a duck. But if it would have been in Gospel Doctrine or Elders Q, I probably would have tried to at least bring up there is another way to see that.

I don’t like feeling that way about another TBM – especially when they are a leader that I respect.

Now if what they are saying/doing is hurting someone, I am done keeping my mouth shut. I may be (or may not be) tactful about it, but I am not going to let it slide.

I have also looked inwardly at how I react to others. I have found that during my struggles when I was wrestling with issues I felt like I had somewhat of a spiritual sunburn.

While others touching me was not really them doing anything abnormal, it was at times excruciating to me, because of the state I was in. The pain was real, I just couldn’t really put blame on others for it.

But I don’t think I hated them, although at times things they said drove me to leave a class or the church building.

It took time to allow myself to heal. But I can be around everyone in the church now, and talk to family, and not feel the burn I once had.

Sometimes it takes time to heal. There isn’t always blame or dislike towards others, there is just a burn and a healing time and we can find thins get better and more tolerable.

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Thanks for all of your insights. I have been attached to this crisis/transition much longer than I planned and it seems just when I think I am at a calm spot something happens to throw the whole works. I think I am too tired, to worn out, and the balance I once thought possible may not happen for a very long time.

I like people. I really do and that is a large part of the problem. I guess this is a season to say – it’s not working and accept that as my present status.

I am glad we are around so we can talk, I can’t imagine how others in the past have survived.

Glad you posted this, I have been thinking about this a lot lately, as SM has become much more painful lately and I now skip Sunday School altogether. I don’t think I hate the people themselves–I just hate all the perpetuated ignorance. I get frustrated because I believe that if they knew the hard truths about JS etc, the enthusiasm expressed on his behalf at the pulpit would almost vanish. Not everyone would leave the church though, many would stay, but they would be bearing their testimony about something else.

When it’s people who do know their history, I don’t get nearly as irritated. My bishop for example, knows his history better than me, but still has a largely orthodox testimony that regularly offends me (and I tell him that) but I don’t get angry. I respect him and we can talk openly.

I heard a Lutheran pastor/radio talk show host do a show about Mormon Missionaries, and he made a good point (from a Lutheran perspective), which was: don’t get angry at them when they show up at your door, try and understand that they are products of their institution, and believe they are doing the right thing. Take them in, be kind, feed them, and bear your beliefs about Christ’s “true” nature.

I try and have that approach–while it may be wrong for me to only respect the beliefs of those who know their history–I still try and love them, and if I can, learn from them, and try and teach them too. But only out of the spirit of love.

I don’t hate them either I live with 2 of them, and I have a little hobby business with another one, and we get along just fine. Yet another comes over to my house once every six months on on “unofficial” visit and I appreciate his unconditional love and kindness.

But that doesn’t mean I don’t object to things — such as the judgmentalism many carry toward people who have found a different path in Mormonism. The handbook-thumping that locks us into tired, worn out ways of doing things at the expense of innovation and progress.

The other day I realized that I went to a Ward activity with a fairly low cut t-shirt and no garments on. Was probably obvious to people I’m not wearing g’s. Probably will get some kind of negative/judgmental attitude about that eventually. That kind of thing bothers me, but I can’t deny that Mormonism attracts good people, in general.

I just put on a activity with a bunch of TBM’s and it was great. Everyone cooperated and there was harmony and hard work alongside everyone. There was respect and appreciation for the work I did, and the event was a success. I am happy to work alongside TBM’s in the future.

Hate and dislike are very strong words, I can definitely say that I don’t hate anyone in church. I’ve certainly had my ups and downs, my downs are directed at aspects of the culture or a specific teaching, not an individual.

I’ll confess, Neil Andersen’s talk on Joseph Smith during the most recent general conference made me angry. The first time ever that hearing a talk in church actually made me furious. Even then I like to think that the anger wasn’t directed at him but rather the message. I truly have nothing against the man, I don’t even know him. So what made me angry?

One reason, I attend church largely feeling like an outsider. If the discussion turns to judging outsiders the discussion turns to judging me, even though no one really knows they are doing it. They don’t even have to be judging anything specific to me, say someone starts bad mouthing the Catholic church. I’ve never been a member of the Catholic church but my mind ends up placing me in the shoes of the Catholic and I feel the weight of the judgment. It’s practically a reflex over which I have no control.

Another reason, I hate to see unhealthy attitudes and practices perpetuated. For instance, I see how a whitewashed presentation of church history has affected me negatively so I’m very sensitive when I see that cycle continue. I project myself into the untold number of people that may similarly be impacted negatively some day in the distant future.

I see Christ as a uniter, not a divider. Sometimes it’s difficult to listen to an opinion or a talk given by someone that people view as being authoritative when that person is perhaps unintentionally giving a message that will ultimately cause division.

But that doesn’t mean I don’t object to things — such as the judgmentalism many carry toward people who have found a different path in Mormonism. The handbook-thumping that locks us into tired, worn out ways of doing things at the expense of innovation and progress.

Yes, this is a tough pill to swallow. It’s interesting in a way. The better church leaders will realize that callings aren’t responsibilities that must be staffed and that the people staffing them have to display a minimum level of competence and performance to be worthy of the kingdom, callings are opportunities to grow. People need time to grow even if it comes at the expense of a job not being executed perfectly. Overcoming judgmentalism and some of the other negative aspects of church culture is really no different. People need time to overcome those things even if it comes at the expense of discomfort in dealing with them. The only difference is that we can openly talk about ways to help someone grow via a calling but more often than not all discussion on overcoming negative aspects of the culture are taboo. That makes the process much, much slower, if not completely stagnant.

I think we’ve all heard the story, or quite possibly been involved in a similar story ourselves, where a new group of acquaintances starts talking negatively about Mormons without knowing that a person in their group is a Mormon. I’m sure the group would have never gone there had they known and they may even be embarrassed once they find out that someone in the group was a Mormon. Don’t we see something similar to the opposite during some of our meetings? People make the assumption that everyone in the group is of like mind so the attack gloves come off and some people in the group end up roughed up a little.

I’m way off message… again. I’ll end it with a:

Forgive them; for they know not what they do.

I have been wanting to reply to this, but was having a hard time forming more of my thought. I like many of the comments from nibbler:

I don’t hate, but I would state that I get very uncomfortable at times with some TBM’s. There are some that are so full of love that never cause me stress. It is the one that do more judging and try to feel better by pointing out (even if only in their mind) by pointing out how weak others are.

I also have always been rather empathetic and just as someone mentioned, I often think immediately how something would be heard from another perspective.

Hate and dislike are very strong words, I can definitely say that I don’t hate anyone in church. I’ve certainly had my ups and downs, my downs are directed at aspects of the culture or a specific teaching, not an individual.

I can’t say I have never ever had any hatred towards anyone at church. There have been a few people, a bishop and an EQ Pres, that have actively hurt others (things like sexual abuse) and I can’t say at the time I had forgiven them, but those are very rare.

I’ll confess, Neil Andersen’s talk on Joseph Smith during the most recent general conference made me angry.

Ditto. It left me with the feeling that TBM’s will still view anybody that starts finding out about church history and doubt that those people must have just not had a testimony. I really think we need to get away from that. RUN away from that or we will continue to have people leave that could have stayed.

Another reason, I hate to see unhealthy attitudes and practices perpetuated. For instance, I see how a whitewashed presentation of church history has affected me negatively so I’m very sensitive when I see that cycle continue. I project myself into the untold number of people that may similarly be impacted negatively some day in the distant future.

The more I have though about it the more that I feel that is what bothers me. I don’t want someone to go through the pain just because of whitewashed history. I don’t see that it is needed – nor desired. We should be open.

Forgive them; for they know not what they do.

And I include, “Forgive me; for often I know not what I do.”