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This question “What about your temple covenants?” has been asked of me a few times throughout my life in the church when I haven’t wanted to follow the textbook. For example, when I didn’t pay my tithing one year, and didn’t want a calling at one time, the priesthood leader I spoke to said “What about the covenants you made in the temple??”.
I value integrity very highly, as well as keeping promises, but for some reason, that question doesn’t sit well with me any longer. I’m not sure how to answer it. For example, if you decide you don’t want a calling at some point in your church experience, leaders can point to “What about your covenants?”.
Thoughts on how to answer such a question when someone indicates they don’t want to pay tithing, or perhaps be callingless for a while?
Quote:I’ve covenanted to follow the commandments to the best of my ability. I’m doing the best that I can right now.
Since I don’t really believe the temple is of God anymore, my response would be that I don’t know if God even made those covenants with me. The church may have, but I don’t know if God is behind them anyway. I’ll do what my soul leads me to do, and if paying tithing to a charity rather than the church or turning down a calling I know I won’t be able to do is they way I am led, that’s what I’ll do. Heber13 wrote:Quote:I’ve covenanted to follow the commandments to the best of my ability. I’m doing the best that I can right now.
Yeah, that is a good one. We are also told that we are not to run faster than we have strength. I am striving to give what I can while I work things out for myself.
How about: I’m keeping the temple covenants according to my understanding of them. Or how about: It’s between me and my Heavenly Father. If I was to say what was REALLY on my mind (not always a good thing)….it would be — “I made those covenants 30 years ago. I have changed. My perspective has changed. As a result I haven’t renewed them.” Could you argue that making covenants is something you renew, and if you choose not to renew them, then you are released from the obligation? Not sure,….I just know that the perspective I held as a naiive 23 year old is much different than the perspective I have today. I often wonder if it’s reasonable to expect people to stick to promises they made under one set of premises, only to find those premises are not what you thought they were….
I like a focus on doing the best one can according to the dictates of personal conscience. We have no right or solid ability to judge that in anyone but ourselves, and we often can’t judge ourselves perfectly, so I try not to get into that sort of discussion when it comes to specifics. I think the question itself is fine when focused as a general question, but I don’t like it at all when it comes to being used as a guilt inducer by someone else.
My first reaction is: Quote:that’s between me & God. You don’t have to concern yourself.
One other point to consider in your internal debate. I believe there is a degree of coercion for first timers in the temple. They dont know what they are promising beforehand and although they technically have the ability to refuse a covenant, having to refuse in front of a room of people, often including friends family and a future spouse is difficult to say the least. Promising all that you possess without knowing it a priori would not hold up in court I believe.
Throughout my church career I was I instructed that covenants are an arrangement before two individuals, and are a two way street. The most common example given was that the slightest impure thought would invalidate priesthood authority or offend the spirit, as you are not keeping up your end of the bargain. Much of the temple ritual is to make covenants between the member and the church. When the church does not keep up it’s end of the bargain by being true and faithful to its members, the covenant is no longer in force. If the church is not what it claims to be, then it is no longer entitled to the resolute and unyielding devotion of the member due to not meeting the conditions upon which that blessing was predicated.
This appeal to me feels very used-car-salesman pressure (sorry if any on the board have this profession). I do like the following and I think I will use it.
Heber13 wrote:I’ve covenanted to follow the commandments to the best of my ability. I’m doing the best that I can right now.
SilentDawning wrote:If I was to say what was REALLY on my mind (not always a good thing)….it would be — “I made those covenants 30 years ago. I have changed. My perspective has changed. As a result I haven’t renewed them.”
Could you argue that making covenants is something you renew, and if you choose not to renew them, then you are released from the obligation? Not sure,….I just know that the perspective I held as a naiive 23 year old is much different than the perspective I have today. I often wonder if it’s reasonable to expect people to stick to promises they made under one set of premises, only to find those premises are not what you thought they were….
I agree SD. According to some interpretations, the baptismal covenant includes promises to endure to the end and make all additional required covenants along the way (priesthood, endowment, sealing). This would mean that to marry outside the temple would be a defacto breach of the baptismal covenant. This certainly makes it sound like we can enter into a one way path at the tender age of 8 with no exit ramp save eternal damnation.
However, I do not believe that having that discussion would be helpful with somebody of the requisite mindset to ask “What about your temple covenants?” in the first place.
Yeah, Roy, that probably is a conversation to avoid. 
Every so often, you hear talks in Sacrament meeting on general conference where the leaders rebut arguments such as these. So the talks become a canon of apparent “loophole closing” so in the end, the church appears to have an answer for everything. That seems like a highly coercive thing to ask. A modern day angel with a sword. To be juvenile about it:
What about your temple covenants?
[img]http://i.imgur.com/uvsvYU5.jpg [/img] To shift the onus of uncomfortable dialog back on them. Plus I’d be real interested in what they had to say.
:angel:
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