Home Page Forums General Discussion How did the early church get past this?

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  • #209403
    Anonymous
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    Just wondering if anyone knows how the early church managed to get past all of the difficulties JS and BY brought to the church. For example, the polyandry, mysticism, Mountain Meadows Massacre, etctera. In our day, I joined because this information was not widely available (polyandry was NEVER talked about, nor was the MMM).

    What was it about life in the early days of the saints that helped them get past all these faith-detracting events that were happening during their time?

    #292898
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Probably the beauty, theology and meaning Joseph and Brigham brought, as well. In a way, it’s the same thing that keeps people attracted and inspired today, despite the exact same issues.

    Living in the same time and having similar perspectives and experiences (including shared persecution) also helped.

    Finally, it’s important to note that many didn’t stay. I think many of the people who stayed then would stay now and many of the people who left then would leave now, speaking very, very, very generally. People stay or leave for differing reasons, but there also are stayers and leavers by natural disposition, as well. It really is a subjective, individual, deeply personal thing.

    #292899
    Anonymous
    Guest

    You make a good point, Ray. I have wondered if I were in Nauvoo after the martyrdom, which way would I have gone? Would I have seen Brigham transform in appearance to be Joseph? (Given my current state of belief or lack thereof I’d guess not.) If I knew about polygamy and feel about it as I do now, would I have stayed with what became the RLDS? Or would I have just gone somewhere else or joined another splinter group? If I liked Joseph’s charisma but disliked Brigham’s dogmatism, would I not have followed Brigham or left later when I became fed up? Or maybe it has nothing to do with any of that and I am predisposed to leave anyway – perhaps more along the lines of Oliver Cowdery or Martin Harris.

    To the original question, I think it might have been easier to deal with these sticky subjects then. Certainly there are members who never knew anything about MMM. There was no internet, the church did control the press in Utah (as some argue it still does). And while rumors and actual news did spread by word of mouth, the accuracy of such reports is very dubious. Also, the church was much smaller and much more confined – most people had some direct interaction with Brigham and the apostles, especially in and around Salt Lake.

    And Ray alludes to this as well – the people then, as now, were converted by the Spirit. If they felt they had a Spiritual witness and knew Joseph and Brigham personally that may have been enough. I don’t think many of us have the same level of Spiritual commitment the people had then. Frankly, related to my thoughts above, I’m not sure I would have followed Joseph from Palmyra to Kirtlland to Missouri to Nauvoo – but I may have if I truly believed he was a prophet and everything he said was true. It probably has as much to do with how TBM we are now as it did then, remembering that the “gospel” (that is church tradition and policy) was much simpler then.

    #292900
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Well, one key difference is that they were Millenarians. They fully expected the second coming any minute.

    #292901
    Anonymous
    Guest

    hawkgrrrl wrote:

    Well, one key difference is that they were Millenarians. They fully expected the second coming any minute.

    When I read Susan Staker’s “Waiting For World’s End”, the edited journals of Wilford Woodruff, I was surprised about the number of people that he told in blessings would live to see the second coming of Christ.

    Old-Timer wrote:

    Finally, it’s important to note that many didn’t stay. I think many of the people who stayed then would stay now and many of the people who left then would leave now, speaking very, very, very generally. People stay or leave for differing reasons, but there also are stayers and leavers by natural disposition, as well. It really is a subjective, individual, deeply personal thing.

    At one point there were more members in England than in the US and without the missionary efforts of BY and others of the 12 the church may have just dwindled.

    #292902
    Anonymous
    Guest

    To illustrate why one family left at that time, I have the following story told to me by my old boss.

    I’m retired & I went back to visit with my old boss. She asked what I was doing & I said that I’ve been doing the genealogy for my family.

    She said that her Mother does it too & found out that her family used to be in the LDS Church when they moved to SLC.

    It turns out that her 2nd or 3rd Great Grand Father worked on the Salt Lake temple & died during the construction. The family didn’t

    receive any help from the Church to compensate for his loss to the family. As a result, the family sued the Church & were excommunicated.

    They then had to move to the mid-west where the family lives today. Strange but true.

    I’m sure there are similar stories about why families left SL. Maybe not as dramatic.

    Not to get off topic, another story I’ve always wondered about is why Oliver Cowdery left the church. Is there any thing written by him as to why

    he left? I always thought that polygamy had something to do with it. I’m surprised that he didn’t seem to have supporters.

    #292903
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Mike wrote:

    I’ve always wondered why Oliver Cowdery left the church. Is there any thing written by him as to why

    he left? I always thought that polygamy had something to do with it. I’m surprised that he didn’t seem to have supporters.

    Just going off the top of my head there were many differences of opinion between Oliver and Joseph. Oliver wanted to sell his Jackson County land after they were driven out, Joseph didn’t want anyone to sell, I think as a sign that they wouldn’t give up hope of returning. Oliver called Joseph’s relationship with Fanny Alger a nasty affair, and didn’t want to apologize for insinuating adultery. He agreed with the Whitmers on their points of contention and was driven out of Far West with them. I think there were about nine points made against Oliver in his excommunication hearing. He may have found some supporters if he had tried to gain any, it seems he didn’t have that ambition.

    Regarding the question how did the early saints get around some difficult issues: we should remember that not all the information that is available now was widely known. The general membership did not have knowledge of Joseph’s 33+ wives. Most would not have known anything about polyandry. Yes polygamy was an issue for some that left, but others said things like “whatever God commands is right, even if in other circumstances it is wrong. Don’t try to bend the ways of God to the reasoning of man.”

    #292904
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Quote:

    The general membership did not have knowledge of Joseph’s 33+ wives. Most would not have known anything about polyandry.

    – And that’s where the Expositor comes in

    – Followed by a martyrdom

    -Then the exodus.

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