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I have pondered if JS may be an “annoited one” of God despite all his flaws. I have read about a “Messiah Ben (son of) Joseph” from some Jewish sources (which are all over the place in regard to his identity) and here is a LDS article that says JS was this “second” messiah: I think the GAs believe this and that is why they have such an almost worshipful attitude and reverence for him. And it has established all this prophet worship in the church in general. My mother adored JS though I’ve always felt ambivalent… and the last several years it has been more like that “visceral” icky feeling that other stayers have described.
Now are some examples of scriptures that warn against the murder of, disrespecting, and etc., of the Lord’s annoited even if the person falls I’m iniquity. And these individuals were very different people at the beginning compared to their end. Saul was very humble at first and “hid among the stuff” when Samuel was publicly anointing him king. David was just a shepherd. Solomon prayed for wisdom… all of them messed up. Very messy mess.
Its interesting that David would not kill Saul despite his many opportunities because he would not raise his hand against the Lord’s anointed. Absalom was punished for usurping his father’s throne which was after David’s murder of Uriah. Solomon’s kingdom remained until his death and the kingdoms were divided which resulted in the eventual loss of the 10 tribes… which the Messiah Ben Joseph was sent to gather.
The BYU article does do a creative job in presenting JS as this Messiah. I remember one prophet saying that JS had done more for the salvation of mankind than any other except Jesus Christ. Hearing that used to make me very resentful until I read about this mysterious Messiah Ben Joseph. So I try to respect him for the things like the BoM, establishing the church, etc. As for BY, JTaylot, et al not so much.
No, I don’t believe any of the apostles believe Joseph was a second Messiah, since I have never heard it said once in my life (by anyone, not just by an apostle) – and there is nothing in our canon that would support it. Individual members can believe whatever they way, but, as far as I know, there is no evidence whatsoever that any of the leadership believes this.
I’ve never heard of it at church. I bought several commentaries on the Talmud a few years back and that’s how I initially run across it. After I searched online I found the BYU article. So some Mormons must think it was JS? With all this stuff about every conference talk, every Ensignissue, every manual being sort of canonized (unless later rescinded likeMormon DoctrineorDoctrines of Salvation, it is difficult to tell what to follow. The Q15 are suposedly “infallible”. Every word of the prophet… never led astray, living scripture, etc. I don’t have a problem with this schema if it didn’t cause the much discussed cognitive dissonance and the aforementioned “icky” feelings sometimes. Maybe I’m wrong but I thought those that write BYU articles went through some sort of vetting process by GAs. Therefore, an archived article would not be known and approved by them? I’m in Louisiana and never been to UT so how could a simple country bumkin come across this without the GAs aware of it? Maybe I don’t give my admitted kooky side enough credit.
This is the quote that disturbed me as a youth (for I remember when it was first published). Found it easily on Mormon wiki and it seems inspired from the “Teaching of JFS” manual, though not word for word. I wouldnt recommend anyone here to read the particular chapter in the manual unless you want to disturb yourself further (like I just did by the refresher) but here goes the Ensign quote I remember: Mormons do not worship Joseph Smith, but do believe that “Joseph Smith has done more for the salvation of mankind than any other man who has ever lived on the earth, save Jesus Christ himself” (Franklin D. Richards, “Opportunities to Serve,” Ensign, Nov 1987, 81)
Sounds like almost messiah like status to me.
I am sure some fringe members do believe JS to be very much a messiah. While I like to avoid all appearances of JS worship myself (I won’t sing “Praise to the Man” for instance), IMO there are quite a few who would easily buy into the idea of JS being a messiah and even more who buy the idea that JS has done more for salvation than anyone except Jesus (paraphrased). I do not think all of the GAs, including the Q15, believe JS to be a second messiah, however I do think there is a general reverence for him. I don’t think that in order to be a member in good standing one has to believe JS to be any more than an ordinary an who founded the church. Quote:I thought those that write BYU articles went through some sort of vetting process by GAs.
Nope.
There is a HUGE difference between high respect, admiration and even adoration and worship. I also don’t like worshipful attitudes, but I have absolutely no problem with “Praise to the Man”, for example, since it only says “praise” and because it says explicitly that he will be “crowned in the midst of the prophets of old” – which, taken only for what it says, puts him in the same category as other people seen as prophets. We define “praise” differently than the Protestant world, and it’s not fair to Brother Phelps to accuse him of worship when he wrote a EULOGY in a time of great grief. He adored Joseph; he didn’t worship him.
I am going to say this carefully, but we can’t go to the opposite extreme of what we criticize; that only makes us the other side of the zealot coin. We don’t need to worship Joseph, but we also don’t need to see “worship” in every expression of respect, admiration and even adoration.
Having said that, I disagree completely with the article and its assertion that Joseph was a second Messiah. That absolutely is not Mormon doctrine.
Even “Mormon Doctrine” isn’t Mormon doctrine anymore. I don’t have a copy since I gave mine to missionary a long time ago. I don’t think there was anything in it about this topic but not sure. A Google search turns up a lot of Jewish sites, and some say this Messiah was Jesus because he fits the “suffering servant” model and his (step)Father was named Joseph. Others argue that can’t be since His lineage was from Judah instead of Joseph. Add “Smith” to the search results many anti mormon sites. I’m uncomfortable with all the adoration of JS unless he does have some 2nd Messiah status. I agree that he probably doesn’t a I really dislike the hymn “Praise to the Man”. The ward I grew up in picked it almost every Sunday. I do like the music part but the words, no.
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