Doubting – Meridian Magazine

Sure wish the Ensign printed articles like this one.

….this is one way of thinking about doubt, as a prompt that both marks the limits of rational understanding and beckons us to bring other human faculties to bear on life’s most urgent matters.

This rings true to me. What a relief to be using more of my faculties now.

Thanks for sharing, Mom. I do wonder why the Ensign has not commissioned an article by the Givens, it would seem so beneficial to so many.

Hmmm. Interesting. I may very well send in that as a suggestion to the Ensign and mention how the few recent “doubt” articles may feel good to TBM’s, but would do nothing for someone in the middle of a FC.

I might do that. I will report back if I send it in. I might just give the details so if others also want to suggest this, we could do a small flood to get some attention.

Thanks for sharing, Mom. I do wonder why the Ensign has not commissioned an article by the Givens, it would seem so beneficial to so many.

Hmmm. Interesting. I may very well send in that as a suggestion to the Ensign and mention how the few recent “doubt” articles may feel good to TBM’s, but would do nothing for someone in the middle of a FC.

I might do that. I will report back if I send it in. I might just give the details so if others also want to suggest this, we could do a small flood to get some attention.

That is a thought. It is my understanding that Deseret Book asked for a book like Crucible of Doubt. I realize the Ensign is a little higher order than DB (every word in the Ensign is scripture after all ) but it would seem like if DB could do it, so can the Ensign. Maybe a little respectful requesting could make that happen.

I just received the Crucible of Doubt, but have not yet had time to read it. I had to laugh when I heard (from my memory here, so take it with a grain of Na Cl) that the Crucible of Doubt apparently makes a statement to the effect that a historical prophet made a mistake, the DB editors came back and said, “You can’t say that, you have to change it.” The Givens replied that he has to for his book to make sense.

Back to that belief that you can NEVER state that a prophet has done wrong (see polygamy essays). I can only think of President Uchtdorf as saying mistakes were made.

Smile – I am there with you. This is my biggest issue also. We heard in last conference, “we will not, we cannot mislead you” and I had to yell at my TV, “That can’t be true! Even Pres Ucthdorf said so!” Glad my TBM wife wasn’t at home then.

I can get my head around that leaders are fallible and sometimes say/teach/preach incorrect things, but I am just get upset when I hear how the leader say there is direct line from God to the prophet then to you. I just don’t see it that way anymore. I see me trying to do what God says and listening to the leaders at my SIDE. I need to get the spirit to tell me which things that they say are true and that I need to do. At the same time, I am not a leader hater. I look at many of them and see a tremendous sacrifice that they make in administering the church. But I do see them over-emphasizing their role.

Bill Real had this topic on his podcast of mormondiscussion.org, but that was one that I must admit didn’t really help resolve the issue for me.

I don’t find them helpful. Especially the Ensign one. In fact they are a little condescending. It boils down to “I know you are struggling with your doubts, so what you should do is… to not have doubts.” And: “Don’t reason, just believe.” It’s the “doubt your doubts” argument restated in a lot more words.

They are right though. To continue to have faith this is exactly what is required. But it doesn’t help me much since I’m a pretty strong believer in the power of reason to lead me to truth. Faith in whatever you are currently believing (Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, etc.) while doubting your doubts in these things that you have been taught has a much worse track record for arriving at truth. Especially when you look back at historical belief systems.

I understand the point that Bro Givens is trying to make with this statement, but the comment that “revelation is not always infallible” is something that I have difficulty with. In my mind, revelation has to be infallible in order to be revelation. Our understanding of revelation is fallible, but the revelation itself can’t be otherwise I don’t believe that it can have come from God.

The following quotes come from the article “Great and Marvelous are the Revelations of God” by Gerrit Dirkmaat of the Church History Department in the 12/2012 Ensign.

“They understood that the process of revelation was not static and that the Lord sometimes commanded Joseph to revise, update, or correct the written revelations.”

“He also applied the term (Urim and Thummim) to other stones he possessed, called “seer stones” because they aided him in receiving revelations as a seer. The Prophet received some early revelations through the use of these seer stones.”

“The Prophet and Revelator inquires of God. He spiritually sees, hears, and feels, and then speaks as he is moved upon by the Holy Ghost.” (reference to spiritual visions that might be later described using more physical visitation event terminology)

“While many members today may look at the revelations as being static and unchanging, the Prophet Joseph Smith saw the revelations as living and subject to change as the Lord revealed more of His will. Members of the Church relied upon Joseph to receive continued revelations for the Church. As former Church Historian Elder Marlin K. Jensen of the Seventy has explained: “Joseph seemed to regard the manuscript revelations as his best efforts to capture the voice of the Lord condescending to communicate in what Joseph called the ‘crooked, broken, scattered, and imperfect language’ of men”8 (see also D&C 1:24).”

I think it is important to agree that the revelations that have come down in print are not perfect. Where then are the imperfections introduced? Perhaps God only gives us the tiniest morsel that we are prepaired to handle. Perhaps God sends down perfection and it becomes altered in the transmission through mortal instruments.

Seen another way, perhaps such “revelations” represent our best attempts to approach the spirit of God and divinity – being assisted from time to time with inspiration to prod us in the right direction.

All of these possibilities seem to have some elements of truth.