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  • #209467
    Anonymous
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    I have been asked to give a combined MP lesson on working with inactives. The wording of the bishop was something along the lines of “We have many members in our ward who have been offended and don’t know how to get them back.” He’s sincere, but he doesn’t get “It is not that simple.” My missionary son and I have been having an email discussion about this – he said a few weeks back that church leaders don’t understand reactivation, and I agreed. I told him the reason they don’t understand reactivation is because they don’t understand inactivity and it is never as simple as being offended, lazy or sinful. My son thinks this is a huge problem there with members being judgmental and sometimes not being willing to extend an olive branch, and I think this good bishop is saying the same thing.

    The bishop referenced this old talk I’ve never heard of and (probably won’t like) about working with those who have been offended (I will try to find it). I plan to use Pres. Uchtdorf’s Oct. 2013 address. So, in addition to the few seconds it will take me to say “It is not that simple” and quote a bit from the talk, I’m looking for other suggestions. Thanks in advance.

    #293781
    Anonymous
    Guest

    I have a few thoughts

    1. Active members need to be cautious about writing off concerns as “he got offended” and then moving on. I’ve been labelled that way at certain times, and it only minimizes the depth of what I’m feeling. It makes the active membership seem heartless and uncaring when life experiences that left me sleepless for many nights, and that caused me deep suffering. are written off with this three word sentence.

    2. Be patient and kind. And avoid judgmentalism. Tell the story about the lady who showed up at church occasionally smelling like cigarettes and asking, once, if a person can be kept out of heaven for drinking a cup of coffee. The Ward judged her, and then a while later, she died. Her non-member daughter appeared at church and asked to hold her funeral there. She told the Ward that the woman was a devote Mormon, but her husband was abusive. He smoked, and it was all in this woman’s clothes. And the Sunday she asked about coffee — her husband, a mean person, told her he wouldn’t give her the car to go to church unless she drank a cup of coffee before she left. Help people see that the outward appearances are often now what they judge them to be, and that often, there are a huge quantity of life experiences which put what seems to be contrarion behavior in a different perspective.

    3. Focus on service. I remember during my first less active period, someone came over to my house and helped me do work around it. Although I was feeling very disaffected, after he left, I felt like I wanted to go back to church. Be a warm blanket, a fire and a warm meal, and not a cold prickly judge of people who aren’t active at the moment.

    4. Think seriously about whether you want to engage in what I call “hit and run” activation efforts. I find them alienating. Particuilarly if after the attempt doesn’t produce immediate results, the activator leaves and you never see them again.

    We had a Stake President come to our home to talk to us. We were flattered at first, that he had taken an interest in us, and agreed to have him come over. But later, after I tried to connect the dots, I asked if there was a GA coming down — and sure enough, an Apostle was coming for a Stake Conference in a couple weeks. This was the obligatory “minister instead of administer” visit so he could report to the Apostle.

    If you’re going to take it upon yourself to activate someone, then make sure you’re in it for the long haul, and work at it without any expectations the person will come back.

    5. Don’t ask people if they want their name removed when they give contrarion opinion or seem stone cold. Sure its nice to have clean records, but it sure can alienate people even further when someone appears to just give up on them like that. One Bishop coached us to do that when we were “cleaning up the Ward records”. And then he didn’t even process the removals — which looked even worse for the church.

    6. Make your programs good. People spontaneously come back to church — focus on doing the work of the Ward well so when people come to church, they feel they are part of something fabulous. There is nothing like being a part of a Ward where lessons are well-prepared, activities are well-planned, the Spirit is present, as they make the sacrifices seem worth it. The fruits of the gospel in the lives of the active members are perhaps one of the greatest motivators for less active people to re-engage with the church experience again.

    I could go on and on, but when/if I fully re-engage with the church again, I will have a much different attitude toward less active people than I did as a traditional believer.

    #293782
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Love them – truly and unconditionally, whether or not you think there is any chance of them returning to activity. Leave activity out of the equation completely. Ask them what they need and/or want and do that, whatever it is. If it is nothing, so be it; thank them and do nothing. Tell them you love them and ask them to let you know in the future whenever they need something.

    Assign them a HT and/or VT (perhaps a couple who knows and loves them already) and LEAVE THAT ASSIGNMENT ALONE. Carve it in stone and walk away. Don’t play revolving door games with them.

    If you can’t do that, leave them alone – except to send a note about the lessons regularly. If you can’t do that regularly and consitently, leave them alone. They will spot programmatic insincerity right away (after all, they’ve experienced it in the past, almost surely), and it will make things worse. They will contact someone if they want to return. Do what you think you can do without ceasing; nothing is better than temporary, programmed efforts that will stop and only reinforce negativity.

    #293783
    Anonymous
    Guest

    I like SD’s suggestions. I’d make a slight amendment to #2.

    It’s easy for us to see how we shouldn’t judge others when we realize that our assumptions were incorrect. That is a good place to start, but from there it might be helpful to get to a place where we cease to judge others even when our assumptions are correct. How inviting are we when a person actually is smoking or drinking? People that do have WoW issues are judged or at the very least they feel judged and either one can prevent them from coming to church. It’s sad that their “sin” prevents them from going to church while everyone else in church is just as sinful, the only difference is that a lack of WoW adherence is harder to hide.

    I think our community can come across as judgmental (or is judgmental, take your pick) when we visit members homes and only ever talk about ways to get them to do something they are not currently doing. This goes along with SD’s #4. If every time we show up at someones door it’s always to find out how their efforts to quit smoking are coming along and why they aren’t going to church is it any surprise why people feel judged? We’d be better off if we created a come as you are environment but we often project a come as you were or worse yet, come as I want you to be environment (Nirvana).

    I really do like SD’s #4. We have way too many ulterior motives in our activation efforts in the church.

    #1) People can sense that. Who wants to be a project?

    #2) It can lead to burnout. I’ve visited 100 times and they still haven’t come back to church. I quit.

    #293784
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Ray said:

    Quote:

    Assign them a HT and/or VT (perhaps a couple who knows and loves them already) and LEAVE THAT ASSIGNMENT ALONE. Carve it in stone and walk away. Don’t play revolving door games with them.

    People in my Ward (& the Stake) have asked us why we are active again & we tell them good HT’s & VT’s.

    You have to “leave the assignment alone”. A good relationship, if it’s going to develop, takes time & effort.

    I am also beginning to realize that spiritual answers don’t often come through prayer, Bishops or SP’s.

    They come from compassionate interpersonal relationships.

    #293785
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Mike wrote:

    I am also beginning to realize that spiritual answers don’t often come through prayer, Bishops or SP’s. They come from compassionate interpersonal relationships.

    +1

    #293786
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Thanks, all, for your input so far. I found the talk the bishop referenced. https://www.lds.org/general-conference/1982/04/a-brother-offended?lang=eng” class=”bbcode_url”>https://www.lds.org/general-conference/1982/04/a-brother-offended?lang=eng Considering its time, it’s not horrible – but there are things I don’t agree with. On the other hand, there are some good tidbits in there as well.

    #293787
    Anonymous
    Guest

    I am a huge proponent of 3 Nephi 18. There are key verses, from Christ himself, about inclusion about everyone – including non-believers. It might help to add them.

    Not to be negative, but this issue with inactives has so many spokes on it, that simplifying it is impossible. It also makes understanding impossible. Right now the culture war of our church only adds to it. Good luck Dark Jedi. I will pray, and search for you.

    #293788
    Anonymous
    Guest

    I have more thoughts if you like. I won’t write them unless you want. It’s a novel of thoughts so I will wait before clogging up the thread.

    #293789
    Anonymous
    Guest

    mom3 wrote:

    I have more thoughts if you like. I won’t write them unless you want. It’s a novel of thoughts so I will wait before clogging up the thread.

    Please do share. The lesson is a week from Sunday. So far I think I will start with a very short version (2 minutes) of my own story focusing on Pres. Uchtdorf’s Oct. 2013 address as a key turning point for me and emphasizing “It is not that simple.” I may throw in a few other quotes about it being OK to question. I’m thinking of playing the video clip of Pres. Uchtdorf’s “stop it.” Being offended is probably not the real or only reason for inactivity

    I want to include (hat tips to each of you):

    – (prayerfully) assigning HT/VT who understand agape love, and assigning them for the long haul

    – avoiding showing interest without followup and/or just to reactivate (and when no interest is shown, not abandoning)

    – not making anyone a project or part of a program

    – sincere, loving service

    – no sign on the door about testimony height

    #293790
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Too often reactivation is focused on telling people what role the church should have in their lives. You can try asking: What role do you want the church to have in your life?

    #293791
    Anonymous
    Guest

    nibbler wrote:

    Too often reactivation is focused on telling people what role the church should have in their lives. You can try asking: What role do you want the church to have in your life?


    *like* :thumbup:

    I do need to come up with a nice way to say the “all in” church doesn’t work for everybody (and said in a way that’s acceptable to the orthodox group I’ll be working with).

    #293792
    Anonymous
    Guest

    nibbler wrote:

    Too often reactivation is focused on telling people what role the church should have in their lives. You can try asking: What role do you want the church to have in your life?


    I wholeheartedly agree. I just started nursing school a month ago, and one of the KEY parts of care plans for our patients is learning what they think works and doesn’t work. I can give someone morphine for severe pain, but if they think that ANYTHING synthesized in a lab, even if it comes from nature usually, will taint their bodies and not aid in healing, then morphine will not work near as well as something they approve of. Regardless of physiology, in their mind it isn’t as good. If they want nothing to do with it, that’s what they get. If they want a community of people to socialize with, then that’s what they get. If they want a refuge to receive spiritual answers from, then that’s what they get. It’s best when left up to the individual.

    Old-Timer wrote:

    Love them – truly and unconditionally, whether or not you think there is any chance of them returning to activity. Leave activity out of the equation completely. Ask them what they need and/or want and do that, whatever it is. If it is nothing, so be it; thank them and do nothing. Tell them you love them and ask them to let you know in the future whenever they need something.

    Assign them a HT and/or VT (perhaps a couple who knows and loves them already) and LEAVE THAT ASSIGNMENT ALONE. Carve it in stone and walk away. Don’t play revolving door games with them.

    If you can’t do that, leave them alone – except to send a note about the lessons regularly. If you can’t do that regularly and consitently, leave them alone. They will spot programmatic insincerity right away (after all, they’ve experienced it in the past, almost surely), and it will make things worse. They will contact someone if they want to return. Do what you think you can do without ceasing; nothing is better than temporary, programmed efforts that will stop and only reinforce negativity.


    I also fully agree with this. As someone who stopped going to church only ~5 months ago, I still have all the traditional tactics fresh in my mind. I even used them less than a year ago! I know what they are, and can smell them a mile away. I know the people are usually good meaning, but I don’t care to be the object of good meaning actions. I care to be an object of intention. I have no problem (usually ;) ) with adhering to social norms, even within subset groups like churches, but if I’m actively involving something in my life, it’s going to get the real me, not the doctored/filtered version, and I expect that of others. I get that some people don’t understand that process, my mother included :crazy: , but it’s how I operate and am at peace with it.

    #293793
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Why does the church persist with the offense myth?

    #293794
    Anonymous
    Guest

    It’s the only reason some people can understand. They understand being offended; they don’t understand other reasons.

    Seriously, it’s not more complicated than that.

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