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GD Lesson 35 Be Ye Reconciled To GodThis week’s lesson in Gospel Doctrine covers 2 Corinthians.
I want to start a thread to talk about this scripture, like we are all in a class, for those who wish to attend. We can read the passages, ask questions, bring in questions and applications for our day.
Background to Corinthians:To review from prior weeks, we last saw our hero (Paul) talking with the Corinthians around 57 AD in the 1st book of Corinthians.
amateurparent started a discussion last week here:
http://forum.staylds.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=6918 ” class=”bbcode_url”> http://forum.staylds.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=6918 Corinth was situated on the Isthmus of Greece (called Achaia in the Bible) between the Ionian Sea and the Aegean Sea, above the Mediterranean Sea. About 50 miles to the east was the city of Athens.
The Corinth of Paul’s day was relatively new. The old Corinth (which was famous and powerful in the days of the Peloponnesian War) was burned in 146 B.C. by the Roman proconsul, L. Mummius.
Because it was a city devoted to the gods, a hundred years were required to pass before the city could be rebuilt. In 46 B.C., Julius Caesar rebuilt the city, populated it with a colony of veterans and freedmen, and named it Julia Corinthus. It soon became a very important commercial center.
With a population of 400,000 and being a prominent center of commerce in the Mediterranean world, it was a place for all sorts of vice. An example of its immorality was found in the temple of Venus (Aphrodite), which hosted 1000 priestesses dedicated to prostitution in the name of religion. The city’s close proximity to the city of Athens probably added the problem of intellectualism. As noticed in the epistle, such an environment had its effect upon the church in Corinth. It is amazing that a church existed at all in such a city.
The church at Corinth began in 52 A.D., when Paul visited there on his second missionary journey. It was then that he stayed one and a half years, the first time he was allowed to stay in one place as long as he wished. A record of this visit and the establishment of the church. It is recorded by Luke in Ac 18:1-18.
It appears from reading the epistle that the church was adversely affected by the immoral environment found in the city.
Pride caused division in the church and disruption in the services (1 Cor 1-4, 11).
Immorality and immodesty found its way into the church, which gave it a bad reputation.
The bad news concerning the problems at Corinth had reached Paul in Ephesus. It seems that this news came from at least two sources: 1) the household of Chloe (1 Cor 1:11); and 2) a letter sent to him (1 Cor 7:1), possibly by the hands of Stephanas, Fortunatus, and Achaicus (1 Cor 16:17).
That was the background for 1 Corinthians.
So…why 2 Corinthians?This second letter of Paul to the Corinthian church was occasioned by the report brought back by Titus, who informed Paul of their reception of the first letter, and how they received the rebuke that letter contained.
Titus’ report was encouraging, but evidently it also brought troubling news that some at Corinth were:
1) They were questioning Paul’s authority as an apostle. This doubt may have planted by “Judaizing teachers” who seemed to follow Paul and attempted to undermine his teaching concerning the Law.
2) They appear to have questioned his veracity, his speaking ability, and his unwillingness to accept support from the church at Corinth.
3) There were also some people who had not repented of their licentious behavior.
We are going to get into some of these things as we read through sections of the book. There are some great lessons to learn from these writings as we go through the letter including:
– Overcoming tribulation
– Admonishing the saints to forgive one another
– Feeling godly sorrow for sins
– Exhortations to be reconciled to God.
Before we go into those…Let me get some responses from people on a few questions.
(Format responses however you wish…all in one post or use quotes from this post on the questions and respond as you wish to individual ones):1. What does it mean to you to be “Reconciled to God”?2. Why do you think Paul was talking to them about being reconciled to God? Why not to each other or the church?[There are no right or wrong answers. Just discussion from reading the scriptures from your point of view.]1. What does it mean to you to be “Reconciled to God”?The atonement is the first thing that pops in my mind, but that’s my LDS conditioning talking.
First I want to figure out what being reconciled with someone means. To me “reconciled” implies that an offense has occurred. One party has angered another or both parties are angry at each other. Reconciled means getting to a place where both parties can say “we’re good” and people aren’t angry at each other afterwards.
Tossing god into the mix, perhaps we feel god is displeased by something that we’ve done and we need to make amends in order to set things right. Perhaps we feel god has done wrong by us and reconciliation takes the form of us deciding to be “the bigger man,” to swallow our pride and look past the perceived offense.
It seems like in both scenarios we’re the one that is taking all the action. We’re reconciling our beliefs with our actions. Either our beliefs give ground to our actions or our actions give ground to our beliefs. We reconcile with god when we reach some sort of temporal equilibrium, we feel as though our beliefs align well with our actions.
2. Why do you think Paul was talking to them about being reconciled to God? Why not to each other or the church?Maybe the thought process is that reconciling with one another might land the community somewhere short of an ideal. Perhaps the community was perfectly fine with settling for visiting temple prostitutes but Paul wanted to elevate the community above an accepted practice.
Reconciling with god makes for a common goal that everyone can work towards, provided there is some consensus on the will of god. It short circuits the arguments people like to have; no, you do the reconciling because
I’mright. Reconcile yourself to god, that way the onus on changing is on everyone, not just the people that are currently “right.” Maybe people reconciling with one another is a byproduct of reconciling with god?
nibbler wrote:It seems like in both scenarios we’re the one that is taking all the action. We’re reconciling our beliefs with our actions.
I really like the focus you use on the Atonement and inward looking at OUR beliefs and actions to reach that equilibrium.
nibbler wrote:Reconcile yourself to god, that way the onus on changing is on everyone, not just the people that are currently “right.”
Yes! Thanks for answering those, nibbler. Great thoughts. And I think it is good Paul leaves the focus on God not the church or church leaders.
I saw a parallel with the church today by reading these books of the New Testament. The Corinthians had issues. Do any of these strike a cord with you? If so, why?
Quote:1) They were questioning Paul’s authority as an apostle. This doubt may have planted by “Judaizing teachers” who seemed to follow Paul and attempted to undermine his teaching concerning the Law.
2) They appear to have questioned his veracity, his speaking ability, and his unwillingness to accept support from the church at Corinth. (I think they were offended and unimpressed)
3) There were also some people who had not repented from the last letter.
Any other comparable issues you have to what the Corinthians were doing?
We don’t get letters like this…how do Church leaders exhort, admonish, teach, and love us? (Care to provide examples?)
Is that effective for addressing any of the concerns you might have (or members in general)?
To me reconciliation with God is completion of a process already begun. He already reconciled to us through Christ. It’s turning towards Him, closing the space between us, going back to His tabernacle/house/tent “no more a stranger, nor a guest, but like a child at home.” That’s the kind of ethereal version of it for me, anyway.
I’m asking a lot of questions, so anyone that wants to respond to any question or have a thought to share, feel free to quote any question and answer it. Perhaps this follows the lesson that will be taught on Sunday, but we can have our open discussion about any doubts, fears, disappointments or beliefs here as a group….the kind of gospel doctrine class with a group of people we all would love to meet with.
So let’s get into the lesson.
We don’t get letters like Paul wrote (does anyone know who actually did write these scriptures…they may not have come from the hand of Paul at all).
General Conference is coming up. Similar to how Paul was writing to the church in corinth because they doubted his Apostolic authority and he wanted them to repent, we have general conference today to be taught by church leaders.
Church leaders aren’t perfect, not always right…but they can have nuggets to teach us, share with us.
Pres Eyring said:
Quote:“Don’t discard the counsel, but hold it close. If someone you trusted handed you what appeared to be nothing more than sand with the promise that it contained gold, you might wisely hold it in your hand awhile, shaking it gently. Every time I have done that with counsel from a prophet, after a time the gold flakes have begun to appear and I have been grateful” (in Conference Report, Apr. 1997, 35; or Ensign, May 1997, 26).
Does a handful of sand by leaders promised to contain gold mean anything to you?Heber13 wrote:1) They were questioning Paul’s authority as an apostle. This doubt may have planted by “Judaizing teachers” who seemed to follow Paul and attempted to undermine his teaching concerning the Law.
2) They appear to have questioned his veracity, his speaking ability, and his unwillingness to accept support from the church at Corinth. (I think they were offended and unimpressed)
Judaizing teachers.
:think: A Judaizing detractor, JD for short.:angel: Those same issues exist today. Those types of issues probably start the exact instant someone is placed in charge (in a religious context or otherwise). We might be critical because we want to go in a different direction than the leader wants to take the group, we may want to be the leader ourselves. Some people are critical by nature and that’s okay.
Heber13 wrote:We don’t get letters like this…how do Church leaders exhort, admonish, teach, and love us? (Care to provide examples?)
I believe our regional or stake conferences have replaced those types of letters. General conference has also replaced the epistle but general conference doesn’t have the proper format for leaders to address specific needs of specific saints in specific places. It’s a
generalconference. People criticize the Pauls of our day. During the October 2014 general conference I felt like many talks had portions that addressed critics/criticism directly. It felt strange to hear those things during conference. Elder Ballard’s Stay in the Boat and Hold On! talk stands above the others in that regard:
Quote:I have heard that some people think the Church leaders live in a “bubble.” What they forget is that we are men and women of experience, and we have lived our lives in so many places and worked with many people from different backgrounds. Our current assignments literally take us around the globe, where we meet the political, religious, business, and humanitarian leaders of the world. Although we have visited [leaders in] the White House in Washington, D.C., and leaders of nations [and religions] throughout the world, we have also visited the most humble [families and people] on earth. …
When you thoughtfully consider our lives and ministry, you will most likely agree that we see and experience the world in ways few others do. You will realize that we live less in a “bubble” than most people. …
… There is something about the individual and combined wisdom of the [Church leaders] that should provide some comfort. We have experienced it all, including the consequences of different public laws and policies, disappointments, tragedies, and deaths in our own families. We are not out of touch with your lives.
I don’t want to get too far into that quote but I’d argue that there’s a difference between visiting dignitaries and the destitute and
beingdestitute. The ability to travel the world and the privilege to do those things is how some people define living inside a bubble. I’m not faulting Elder Ballard on this one, if he didn’t travel the world and visit leaders and members alike there would just be a different kind of criticism. I don’t intend to place leaders in a “can do no right” scenario, I feel that by definition leaders are out of touch with the follower and the follower is out of touch with the leader. We can only ever vacation inside other people’s bubbles, the only bubble we live in is our own. Heber13 wrote:Is that effective for addressing any of the concerns you might have (or members in general)?
Sometimes but not often. I may share many of the same concerns as other people but I have specific needs. Perhaps that’s why conference lasts as long as it does. It’s a weekend where a lot of stuff is thrown against the wall – what sticks for people sticks. My concern though is that if Paul’s letter is too long (like this post) the people of Corinth may take one look and say:
[attachment=0]tldr.jpg[/attachment] And we wonder why some people use conference weekends to take those sinful breaks from commitments to attend church.
:angel: Sometimes quality trumps quantity. I should take my own advice, be a bit more succinct in my posts.:silent: Getting back to the question. A letter or a talk is one thing but what can really make a difference is a helping hand. I don’t need the hand of someone famous like Paul but some people do. It’s nice to see that the apostles have been holding more intimate meetings directly with members than they have in the past.
Maybe modern leaders fear that they will spread concerns where no concern exists if they address certain topics at the general level. E.g. if Paul says “Don’t visit the temple prostitutes.” the concern is that there’s a guy somewhere in the crowd that’s thinking “There are prostitutes at the temple!?!?” and suddenly darts off. There’s also the phenomenon during GC where ministering to the concerns of one group creates concerns for another. It’s tricky.
Heber13 wrote:3) There were also some people who had not repented from the last letter.
There will always be those, that’s just background radiation. The perennial general conference talk on porn comes to mind. The mindset that we don’t get new stuff during conference because we weren’t obedient to what was said last conference also comes to mind.
Your post is not too long. It addresses multiple things I “threw against the wall” on this lesson. Actually…your response very very well focuses the discussion for me. Nibbler, you’re brilliant and your humor shows it.
I love the Elder Ballard quote which does seem to show the church leaders today also face those questions Paul faced by Corinthians. I think it is probably what each bishop often hears others say or is inwardly thinking himself…am I really qualified? How do I get others to listen to me and follow me, even if I’m human?
I don’t know Elder Ballard’s sitaution and background and life and what he spends his time doing. It’s possible he sits in SLC office buildings and looks down at the mall for his perspective…I don’t know. I sat in front of Elder Ballard at the movie theater when we watched Lincoln together, and heard his family’s comments about how bad the previews show the values of our society in our day (I couldn’t help it…I snickered a little
:shh: ). I guess Elder Ballard does get some experience from movies.:shifty: From apostle to apostle, GA to GA…experience and travels and contact with dignitaries and humble families surely varies. I can see Uchtdorf knows about the airline industry. Eyring seems to have experience with academia. Monson has lots of stories about individuals.
Does that mean they really understand us? Or do they just think they do? Maybe it means they know more than we think…but they know less than they think?
:think: Elder Ballard wrote:We are not out of touch with your lives.
I guess, that comes down to
trust. I don’t know if they are or are not. I don’t know if they gave me a bag of sand with something of value in it or not. I can only judge based on experience. If what they say speaks to me. If I am open to take time to sift the sand, or just toss it, point and say
“I decline to pursue it”. As General Conference approaches, will you look for flakes of gold in the sand? Or is it just not worth it?nibbler wrote:Does that mean they really understand us? Or do they just think they do? Maybe it means they know more than we think…but they know less than they think?
:think: Elder Ballard wrote:We are not out of touch with your lives.
I guess, that comes down to
trust. I don’t know if they are or are not. I don’t know if they gave me a bag of sand with something of value in it or not. I can only judge based on experience. If what they say speaks to me. If I am open to take time to sift the sand, or just toss it, point and say
“I decline to pursue it”.
I think people today are leaning more on their own thought and experience.. For instance, my gut – way back when – was telling me that exposure and involvement with porn was not so simple as leaders made it. But their approach was touted as the only way, God’s way. Just now, what? (Elder Oaks in Oct. Ensign) God changed His mind?Give us correct principles…. But I’m learning to trust in
the Lord,who gave me my gut. I think you’re right, Ann. That makes their job tougher to stay important. Maybe that’s why they are focusing on Sabbath day and commitment.
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