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Hey there all, I am having a conversation in my head and I need some other people to listen to it…people that can understand where I’m coming from.
So I went to the local U.U. church this weekend…and I absolutely loved it. The message was on service to others and loving one another even if we were different. In many ways it reminded me of the concept of Zion…in fact one of their hymns that we sung even mentioned Zion!
So what is weird…is even as a convert of only five years who never even went to the temple, I have incorporated so much of LDS thought into my person that I truly am a Mormon at least thats how I feel in my heart. Even though I do not have pioneer blood in my veins nor live in the Mormon Corridor (Florida instead) I still hold the BoM as an important book in my life (if nothing else from the sheer amount of time reading it) and I love the great heritage of great thinkers that have tried to wrestle with these difficult issues.
So what is kind of bugging me…is I went to the U.U. yesterday and I felt great! I enjoyed it…the message was wonderful and, being there several times before in the last few years, felt apart of things and at home there.
However, I still miss the LDS experience if you will…performing the sacrament and testimonies and the talks and the culture.
I felt myself there at the U.U. and the pressure to be anything other than me was completely off…and it was so wonderful.
Yet there is a part of me…deep down inside that wants to testify that God lives and that Jesus is the Christ…it only comes out every once in awhile and I love that side of me. That side of me wants to go the Ward.
Perhaps I have not attended enough of the local wards recently to be disenchanted enough…perhaps if I attend even as my defacto atheist self I will soon run the other way.
I guess you could say that if I do end up going to the U.U. church regularly…I will have alot to offer there as far as perspective. I will proudly introduce myself as a freethinker who has come from the Mormon Tradition.
But I still miss “church”.
In the past years I have attended other services and found likes and dislikes, but I always come back to Mormonism. U.U. was one I did attend, my husband loved it, I was okay until the end and two former Mormons came up and the entire discussion became a rip on Mormons. I think that tainted my experience, but I may consider going back again. I loved the choir – a lot more enthusiastic than ours. I loved the hymn book with the worship/uplift prayers in the back. I loved the non-condemnation talk that was given. You sound torn about where to worship, makes sense, I do know plenty of LDS people who attend other churches to feed their spiritual bucket. Some attend a non-LDS service every week, and still attend and serve in their own ward. Others attend randomly or at certain functions, such as mid-night mass or Easter service. That may be your best solution.
Congratulations on finding a place to feed your spirit.
The LDS church does have some elements of Universalism, although it may not appear so at first glance. In reading RSR, I now attribute this to Joseph’s family history with Universalism. Perhaps that’s why you have found some comfort there. I certainly don’t believe the LDS church has any monopoly on the Spirit. Before (and during) my FC I had come to the conclusion I could not attend any other church – not that they weren’t good, and not that I haven’t felt what I think is the Spirit in other churches, but none felt as right as our church. However, I noe believe that were I to leave the church I might be able to fit in at the UU. (Not to be confused with the UofU, of course! đź‘ż )I almost feel some measure of guilt for attending the U.U. in a way. I suppose its a call back to the orthodox days. Attending another church feels like a betrayal, but I loved it anyway? Another part that compliments this is the fact that I have a step son who has become an atheist due to my observations. He has no interest in going to the LDS but gladly attends the U.U.
I am not sure what I will do just yet. Even in a small discussion with my stepson yesterday he asked me “why do you want to go the LDS church still? Your an atheist” , “Yes” I replied. “But I am a Mormon atheist. A Mormon Humanist.”
“How can you be both? Don’t they contradict?” “I don’t know, but that is what I feel I am, and I am not the only one” was all I could reply.
Perhaps when my divorce is over soon and I feel comfortable attending as a divorced man I will go to my local ward and see what happens.
Maybe I will end up going to both for awhile…I am not sure.
I am thankful for this community though…I feel welcomed and at home here even though I have only been here a short time.
If you pray, pray for me. I am still looking for my personal burning bush experience.
Quote:I am still looking for my personal burning bush experience.
Consider that, maybe, “the Lord maketh no such thing known unto (you)” – that “to some is given to know” but that you might not be in that group. That’s okay, even if our culture for so long has made it seem not okay. I definitely see that changing at the top, but it will take some time for the water to get to the end of the row.
Jorsen wrote:I am not sure what I will do just yet. Even in a small discussion with my stepson yesterday he asked me “why do you want to go the LDS church still? Your an atheist” , “Yes” I replied. “But I am a Mormon atheist. A Mormon Humanist.””How can you be both? Don’t they contradict?” “I don’t know, but that is what I feel I am, and I am not the only one” was all I could reply.
Check out Mormon Discussion
Quote:True Believing Atheist Mormon:
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http://mormondiscussionpodcast.org Today we sit down with Mike B. who shares with us that he is both an atheist and a Believing Mormon. How is that? How can one both disbelieve God and testify of the restoration? Today we find out. You won’t want to miss this as Mike gives us a paradigm and framework that might work for many who have lost faith and can’t seem to find it. He shows us how one’s personal disbelief should not stand in the way of ultimate faith.
I am one that participates in several churches. I tell LDS folks that I participate in many churches but only attend the LDS church. I tell non-LDS folk that the LDS is our “home church” but we enjoy supplementing our spirituality. In some of these churches we have found delightfully well run children’s programs, fun events with good food, friendly welcoming patrons, and stirring worshipful music. We have come to know and develop friendships with many wonderful people that we wouldn’t have known otherwise. This seems to be working for me and my family but I understand that it might not work for others.
It sounds like your in a phase of exploration and finding your true self. Its a good thing to go through because we all need to find our own truth. Whatever makes you more comfortable is where you need to be. Just make sure your doing what you want and feel and not allowing others to persuade you into doing what makes THEM happy. Find your truth! And good luck. Sent from my LGL34C
Old-Timer wrote:Quote:I am still looking for my personal burning bush experience.
Consider that, maybe, “the Lord maketh no such thing known unto (you)” – that “to some is given to know” but that you might not be in that group. That’s okay, even if our culture for so long has made it seem not okay. I definitely see that changing at the top, but it will take some time for the water to get to the end of the row.
Quite right…
I remember the first time I read D and C 49 11-14
11 For all have not every gift given unto them; for there are many gifts, and to every man is given a gift by the Spirit of God.
12 To some is given one, and to some is given another, that all may be profited thereby.
13 To some it is given by the Holy Ghost to know that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, and that he was crucified for the sins of the world.
14 To others it is given to believe on their words, that they also might have eternal life if they continue faithful.
That really impressed me as I feel that I am currently in the camp described in verse 14. Granted, I recognize that my faith is not very well…and I slide in an out of it…but the scripture itself does give me hope.
It is one of my favorite scriptures of all.
Roy wrote:I am one that participates in several churches. I tell LDS folks that I participate in many churches but only attend the LDS church. I tell non-LDS folk that the LDS is our “home church” but we enjoy supplementing our spirituality. In some of these churches we have found delightfully well run children’s programs, fun events with good food, friendly welcoming patrons, and stirring worshipful music. We have come to know and develop friendships with many wonderful people that we wouldn’t have known otherwise. This seems to be working for me and my family but I understand that it might not work for others.
Thank You for sharing this…
I wonder if this is what I may end up doing for a little while…I am not certain.
I suppose it is part of the understood idea of looking for and enjoying light wherever we can find it…but also recognizing that in our culture its expected that the LDS church has more light than anyone else and, naturally, we should attend it exclusively to get the most and thus to go somewhere else for ‘light’ seems ineffective or foolish. Granted, I do not necessarily agree with that but that is the expectation isn’t it?
It seems so odd to try to balance multiple churches…but I think I might try it. Have your children enjoyed the balancing act? My former wife still attends her ward…I may go to my own ward nearby alone at first and incorporate the kids in later.
It’s a strange dance…I am wanting to be a good example for the kids and show some ‘stability’ of some sort…not sure how I am going to approach this yet.
I love those verses in D&C 49, but there is an additional reason most people miss entirely: If it’s okay not to “know” that Jesus is the Christ, then it’s okay not to know just about anything else that is taught. Seriously, if we start with Jesus as the Christ, what is more important than that on a need-to-know scale?
I entertained doing a 52 faiths in 52 months thing. I’m only 2 months in but stuff has cropped up, not sure if I’ll be able to do it or not. I purposely set it at 52 months as opposed to 52 weeks because I wanted to stick to the LDS church the other 3 or 4 weeks of the month for much the same reasons you mention. I’m not looking for another church so much as I’m seeking to supplement stagnant worship (for me personally, not a commentary on church dogma). I want to learn how others connect with the spirit and bring that back to my LDS experience. Jorsen wrote:I felt myself there at the U.U. and the pressure to be anything other than me was completely off…and it was so wonderful.
I know the feeling. The first faith I attended was Humanistic Buddhism. I went, didn’t understand a word of it, and yet I felt peace. There was no pressure.
I think that was because it was my “first day on the job” so to speak. In the LDS church I’ve got a few decades of experience under my belt so the expectations are higher. In the Buddhist temple I had zero experience, so there were no expectations. Now I find myself asking where those expectations originated. In the LDS church there’s the expectation to honor my priesthood in holding callings and doing HT and those are external forces, but I still feel only a part of the expectations that weigh me down come from external sources. I’ve created expectations of myself. I hold myself to that higher standard because I know Mormonism. I know how to be anxious within the framework of Mormonism.
Perhaps if I had been a member of the Buddhist temple for decades I would feel similar pressures when attending.
So that got me thinking. Maybe I could approach attending the LDS church in the same way I attended the Buddhist temple for the first time… don’t bring so many expectations to the table. Forget about what I imagine others to expect of me and forget what expectations I have of other people. That might help me start to feel more at peace and less pressured when attending the LDS church. Certainly easier said than done. There’s an extremely high expectation to serve in callings and people often don’t respect a person’s need for space in that area. Still I figure it’s worth a shot.
I’m glad you had a good experience in the Unitarian Universalist church. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.
Jorsen wrote:I suppose it is part of the understood idea of looking for and enjoying light wherever we can find it…but also recognizing that in our culture its expected that the LDS church has more light than anyone else and, naturally, we should attend it exclusively to get the most and thus to go somewhere else for ‘light’ seems ineffective or foolish. Granted, I do not necessarily agree with that but that is the expectation isn’t it?
Yes it is! Our former bishop met with us over the rumors that we were attending other churches. I let him know that we participate in several but only “attend” the LDS. He responded that in his view there is enough to keep him busy in the LDS church that he might never have time for anything else. I understand his position but the way it came out was not exactly a ringing endorsement for the LDS church. As though he had said, “The LDS church keeps me so busy that I will never have any time left over to meet other people, or try anything new, or do anything fun!” (or at least that’s how it came across to me.
:lolno: )Jorsen wrote:It seems so odd to try to balance multiple churches…but I think I might try it. Have your children enjoyed the balancing act?
I think it starts by actively looking for community events. One church may offer a Christmas shopping day (where the kids select 2 free presents to wrap and give to family members), another may be doing a “Night in Bethlahem”, another may be doing a financial workshop (complete with dinner and free childcare). These types of events are advertised and easy to find if you know where to look. One chruch holds service in a renovated movie theater and they were having free movie nights. They showed christian movies like soul surfer, courageous, God is not dead, and the narnia movies (free popcorn).
We are also very active in our community in a non-religious sense. We spend lots of time at the library and participate in a number of library sponsored or “park & rec.” activities.
It really doesn’t seem like balancing at all – just a large variety of “wholesome family activities.” I recognise that this is also easier for me because I have always been outgoing and able to enjoy meeting people and new situations.
I like Roy’s approach. I recommend you give yourself permission to do whatever helps you feel good. Always trade up. If you don’t want to attend one LDS event or activity, but are replacing it with a very good even or activity elsewhere…that’s good for you.
Don’t let others try to tell you what is best for you.
If the church had enough light and knowledge that it was all you needed…you wouldn’t be feeling the need to seek it elsewhere. There is a flawed logic in trying to convince ourselves “Close your eyes…you don’t need to see more”
Let God guide your footsteps. He may know you have things to learn that require some wandering about.
Quote:We believe that the fulness of the gospel of Christ has been restored, but this is no reason for anyone to feel superior in any way toward others of God’s children. Rather, it requires a greater obligation to invoke the essence of the gospel of Christ in our lives—to love, serve, and bless others. Indeed, as the First Presidency stated in 1978, we believe that “the great religious leaders of the world such as Mohammed, Confucius, and the Reformers, as well as philosophers including Socrates, Plato, and others, received a portion of God’s light. Moral truths were given to them by God to enlighten whole nations and to bring a higher level of understanding to individuals.” Thus, we have respect for the sincere religious beliefs of others and appreciate others extending the same courtesy and respect for the tenets we hold dear (James E. Faust, “The Restoration of All Things,” Liahona, May 2006, 61–62, 67–68.”)
If God gave others moral truths to enlighten us…go find them and bring them back into your testimony. We should not fear being about doing good. We do not have a monopoly on truth or goodness.
Quote:I think it starts by actively looking for community events. One church may offer a Christmas shopping day (where the kids select 2 free presents to wrap and give to family members), another may be doing a “Night in Bethlahem”, another may be doing a financial workshop (complete with dinner and free childcare). These types of events are advertised and easy to find if you know where to look. One chruch holds service in a renovated movie theater and they were having free movie nights. They showed christian movies like soul surfer, courageous, God is not dead, and the narnia movies (free popcorn).
That is exactly how we do it. I have attended the Women’s Tea with my Evangelical friend, our daughters Russian friend is the pianist in their congregation – we went to hear their youth program, I have attended Maudlin Thursday, and Good Friday services with other friends. This and the things Roy mentioned. We’ve done financial planning, mission send offs, choir concerts, etc. If people ask I frame it as “building interfaith relationships.”
Our BYU graduate daughter took World Religions from a man who was a convert and took the 11th Article of Faith to heart and encouraged his students to do so. He taught them Buddhist meditation, which they practiced for 5 mins every day in class, he took them to the Hindu Festival of Lights, and had guest speakers from other faiths. Because of her we have added Midnight Mass to our Christmas practice.
mom3 wrote:Our BYU graduate daughter took World Religions from a man who was a convert and took the 11th Article of Faith to heart and encouraged his students to do so. He taught them Buddhist meditation, which they practiced for 5 mins every day in class, he took them to the Hindu Festival of Lights, and had guest speakers from other faiths. Because of her we have added Midnight Mass to our Christmas practice.
:clap:
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