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This is a question that has bothered me ever since I read the Book of Mormon the first time. I’ve never felt ok about the justification for Nephi killing Laban given in I Ne 4:13: Quote:13 Behold the Lord slayeth the wicked to bring forth his righteous purposes. It is better that one man should perish than that a nation should dwindle and perish in unbelief.
This article from LDS.net presents an allegorical view that I had not thought about before.
http://lds.net/blog/faith/gospel-doctrine/nephi-and-laban/ Quote:Rereading this story recently, I finally realized that perhaps Nephi included this event in such detail to answer even more important questions, eternal questions. How are we freed from Satan’s power? What is our relationship to Jesus Christ? How do we gain eternal life?
It is much more than an historical account; it is also an allegory—a symbolic story featuring the following characters:
Nephi, representing Jesus Christ
Laban, representing Satan
Zoram, representing each of us
If I look at this scriptural story from a purely historical perspective, It still really bothers me. But expanding the literal interpretation of this event can provide a quite different perspective on the story. What do you think?
If God is powerful he could have just as easily given Laban a convenient arianism. It bothers me (just like the Abraham/Issac tale) in that I think it leads to “the ends justify the means” mentality and that is a very slippery slope where the risk of individuals to abuse others in the name of Abrahamic tests (i.e. polygamy – “be my second wife and you and your family will be exalted”). I have always been bothered by the story, too. Laban was inebriated and out for at least the night and probably a good portion of the next day. And in his state, he may not have even remembered his encounters with Lehi’s boys. In my mind Nephi could have just left him there, absconded with the plates, and been done with it. He could have even taken the sword if he thought that was necessary, leaving Laban defenseless. I love symbolism, but I have never picked up on the symbolism in the linked blog (perhaps because it’s sort of “made up” symbolism – but to an extent much symbolism is). I’m actually not inclined to view this story from that symbolic point of view, it just doesn’t do anything for me. I take a non-literal view of the BoM anyway, and since taking that view stories like that are just stories. That doesn’t mean others can’t view it as something different and that’s fine with me.
The story has several serious holes in it. If you cut off someones head,…there will be blood squirting all over the place. If Laban was a big man (probably because he was obviously given to being a drunk), is there a chance that Nephi somehow held him just so while killing him to avoid the blood?
Getting someones clothing off in such a situation,…you think there might be a mess?
Putting those clothes on would be subject to that mess…blood gets sticky. So, I would be quite interested in learning more of how this all happened. And, how could Zoram have missed this?…this guy who shows up with blood all over his cloths?
Furthermore, by today’s standards, this would be an aggravated homicide. laban was incapacitated. He was NOT a threat. This act was like shooting someone while they were asleep. Were there no other options? what about gagging him, or taking him prisoner, or perhaps tying him up? What about selling him into slavery? What about …
I struggle to understand the overarching message of the BoM where God gives the people chance after chance after chance,..and their OWN ACTIONS brought upon themselves the destruction. In this situation, Nephi took action as condoned by God.
It is a difficult section of the book to understand.
LookingHard wrote:…I think it leads to “the ends justify the means” mentality…
Once I heard a brother bear his testimony over the pulpit about the time when his landlord came by asking for the rent check and that’s when the spirit told this brother, “Lie to him” (landlord). He told the landlord that he had already paid that month, the landlord was satisfied, so he didn’t pay rent that month. He was bearing his testimony about being in a tight financial spot and this was how the lord had blessed him. It was also clear from his recounting of the event that it was inspired by the Nephi/Laban story.
DarkJedi wrote:I have always been bothered by the story, too. Laban was inebriated and out for at least the night and probably a good portion of the next day. And in his state, he may not have even remembered his encounters with Lehi’s boys. In my mind Nephi could have just left him there, absconded with the plates, and been done with it. He could have even taken the sword if he thought that was necessary, leaving Laban defenseless.
The counter to this is that once Lehi discovered that the plates were gone he’d remember all those times Lehi’s boys came by looking for the plates so he’d naturally assume that it was them and send a hunting party after them. Of course once Laban turned up murdered you’d think the authorities and the rest of Laban’s house would also remember that Lehi’s boys had recently been around, how wronged they were (motive), figure it was them, and send a hunting party of their own out.
Why Did Nephi Have To Kill Laban? He didn’t. With god all things are possible. I would have picked up a stone and asked god to touch it with his finger and turn the rock into a memory zapping pill.
One thing to consider, OT god was a little more stabby than what we are accustomed to.
Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.
What did the camel ever do to you?
Why didn’t God just have Laban die of alcohol poisoning? It would have been much less messy than chopping someone’s head off. Do we have equal problems with Moses? Moses killed a Slavemaster because he was beating a Hebrew. Apparently, Moses was okay with other slaves being beaten, but not the Hebrews. Apparently, a simple command of “stop” wouldn’t have been enough. I keep asking myself why killing was his only option. Were all the young male babies under the age of 2 really killed after the Wise Men visited the local King? Where is justice in that?
Is it an allegorical story or is it supposed to be taken as fact?
God’s Chosen People arrived in their promised land and were supposed to kill everyone that currently occupied it. Men, women, and children .. (And their little dog too). Later on, it becomes obvious that those people were still occupying the area in large numbers and interacting with the Hebrews.
The more I read and take time to really analyze, the harder it is to take anything literal in the scriptures.
If the LDS church is going to hold the BOM up as The Most Correct Book, then they have some serious explaining to do. I’m waiting for the SS lesson that explains when it is okay for me to get someone drunk, steal their clothes, and hack off their head.
We are supposed to follow the prophets’ examples
I think it is just a story so trying to rationalize it one way or another may prove difficult. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
amateurparent wrote:Do we have equal problems with Moses? Moses killed a Slavemaster because he was beating a Hebrew. Apparently, Moses was okay with other slaves being beaten, but not the Hebrews. Apparently, a simple command of “stop” wouldn’t have been enough. I keep asking myself why killing was his only option.
Were all the young male babies under the age of 2 really killed after the Wise Men visited the local King? Where is justice in that?
Is it an allegorical story or is it supposed to be taken as fact?
God’s Chosen People arrived in their promised land and were supposed to kill everyone that currently occupied it. Men, women, and children .. (And their little dog too). Later on, it becomes obvious that those people were still occupying the area in large numbers and interacting with the Hebrews.
The more I read and take time to really analyze, the harder it is to take anything literal in the scriptures.
If the LDS church is going to hold the BOM up as The Most Correct Book, then they have some serious explaining to do. I’m waiting for the SS lesson that explains when it is okay for me to get someone drunk, steal their clothes, and hack off their head.
We are supposed to follow the prophets’ examples
here here…. <
What makes me chuckle because it is so true, if if you asked the foremost GA about this, he would probably say: “Its both allegorical and literal”…and then launch into a big long dialogue of how your perspective makes all the difference, and how it really wasn’t a murder, and how God was just making a point, and so forth.
But, we teach the book is the most correct. So, what is it teaching here? God has all power,…so why was killing Laban essential? There is a pretty big hole here (and I don’t particularly like Laban. He was a creep).
I cannot count the number of times someone in SS has mentioned “other churches” who don’t assume the stories in the scriptures are literal and real. The entire room shakes their heads in unison. The LDS church teaches scriptural stories as real accounts of historical events. Either they need to change that view, or be ready to deal with the fallout. There are ethical issues in scripture stories. Stating that breaking all the basic rules of human ethics is okay because “God said so” doesn’t work in this day and time. 200 years ago, so little was known of mental illness that spiritual reasons for bizarre actions were acceptable. Someone could kill their child and state it had to be done because a devil was in their child. No one believes that anymore.
There is still a place for belief in God. There is still a place for worship. Blind obedience to a prophet who is seen as infallible is a harder thing. Expecting people to accept murder as God-Ordained is a pollyanna view.
We actually talked about this in my SS class last week. The teacher said according to the laws at the time Nephi was totally within his rights to kill Laban. How true that is idk. Any law of Moses authorities on here? There was also a by common consent blog on it several weeks ago. I like the allegory. My first thought to “Why Did Nephi Have To Kill Laban?” was:
Quote:So we could ask ourselves this question.
I believe life is full of difficult questions for our benefit. Adam was forced to evaluate the command to ‘not eat of the tree of knowledge’ for a reason.
When everything is simple and easy to follow – straight forward – then our growth curve stays very low.
From 2014: http://forum.staylds.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=6140&hilit=laban#p84326 My own answer:
Because Nephi needed a justification to kill Laban, and Nephi believed he could understand the will of God.
There also is one very practical reason:
It forced Lehi’s entire family to finish their flight – meaning Laman and Lemuel (and their new wives) could not return to Jerusalem.
Is it any wonder those people hated Nephi so deeply?
Finally, think about the fact that he did it largely so his posterity wouldn’t dwindle in unbelief and then had a vision of his posterity dwindling in unbelief. Without a personal belief that he had killed Laban to follow God’s will, that simple fact probably would have destroyed him emotionally. I read 2 Nephi 4 and believe that it haunted him, actively, even with that foundation belief.
TataniaAvalon wrote:We actually talked about this in my SS class last week. The teacher said according to the laws at the time Nephi was totally within his rights to kill Laban. How true that is idk. Any law of Moses authorities on here? There was also a by common consent blog on it several weeks ago.
Looks like there are a couple recent BCC posts about this (Nephi Killing Laban/Abrahamic Tests)
http://bycommonconsent.com/2016/01/07/a-book-to-kill-for-bom2016/ http://bycommonconsent.com/2016/01/11/abrahamic-tests/ My view is pretty much in harmony with the Abrahamic Test one.
I’ve also been told (I don’t remember when, maybe in Seminary?) that most people from the Middle East have no problem with the story of Nephi killing Laban. The only thing that they can’t understand was why it took him so long to decide to do it. Must be a cultural thing if that is true. I certainly don’t get it.
I think of an Abrahamic test being one like Abraham’s — Abraham was tested, but he didn’t actually have to kill anyone. We talk about the story of Laban and we discuss the culture and how killing was okay. We conveniently forget the Ten Commandments. We forget the basic laws of all the people who consider themselves descendants of Abraham. We forget that Nephi considered himself righteous. We say that we believe God is the same today and yesterday. We say that we believe the basic laws of God do not change. Then we make exceptions for murder and polygamy and shopping malls. We worry about dating ages and missions, but give murder a pass.
I don’t get it.
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