I need help.

Metalrain, you’ve come to the right place. This site is full to the brim with understanding people who have been, or are, in your shoes. DarkJedi’s advise to take it slow is spot on. There’s no hurry to make immediate decisions about what you’re going to do.

Personally, my journey has taught me that the church and the gospel are two VERY different things. I still hold onto the gospel that Jesus Christ taught. At the same time, I’ve scrapped everything that Joseph Smith taught. I’m not advocating that approach. It’s just the road that I’m on. You’ll find your own road.

My one piece of advice would be to make this YOUR journey. Find YOUR way through this. Find out what YOU believe, and what YOU don’t believe. And, be sure to let your parents and grandparents know that this is your journey, and your search. Otherwise, they’ll be pointing fingers at your girlfriend, and she’ll be unfairly labeled as a bad example. You don’t want that, and she doesn’t deserve that. Good luck with your search. You’ll find a lot of support here! 🙂

I’m having the hardest time reconciling my spiritual experiences, and feelings, with the knowledge, and information I’ve learned. How could I have had such spiritual experiences when the doubts I am having are all related to the foundation of the church?

That’s an excellent question. I’d say hold on to your spiritual experiences. The phrase often used as a weapon against the analytical thinker that doubts comes to mind: for my thoughts are not as your thoughts, neither are your ways as my ways. I certainly don’t say that to attack any conclusion you may have arrived at but I do bring it up to suggest that perhaps there’s room for both the spiritual experiences you have had and the new understandings you’ve arrived at. E.g. if the lord has to work through imperfect vessels what might the end result look like?

After time I found that experience opened up new doors for making spiritual connections and as a bonus I got to keep many of the spiritual experiences I had gained thus far.

How do I balance being analytical and not fault finding?

Another good one. I think it comes down to time and practice. I fell into a trap where I would find the faults in something almost as if I were on autopilot. An aspect of my FC was spending lots and lots of time on that activity. I just had to find the bottom of the rabbit hole. After a while I realized that I needed to spend an equal amount of time picking apart things looking for the good. I’m still working on that one, but it has gotten better with time.

I was home over the break and didn’t want to go to church my last day home and my grandpa gave me a chastising scripture as I got on the plane (out of love and concern, of course).

That’s a really good attitude to have, to know that even though some things our families say sting it’s just their way of expressing their love.

I used to be kind of obsessed with the book of Abraham questions. Still am a bit but ACTIVELY drop the whole thing for a while. Do what you can to take it slow. Believe me it helps a lot. Play computer games. Visit friends. Look at silly animals doing silly things on YouTube or whatever. Actively do something for a couple of days just to relax. This will be a long and very exiting journey for you and you can’t know everything right a way.

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Metakrain, you’ve got some good advice so far and you’re in a great place to ask questions. It’s been a great outlet for mw. Thanks to everyone on the site.

Nibbler said taking each phase is important. It was for me, from non-believers to TBA to evolution.

I shelfed a lot of stuff before I joined, after I joined, during my mission, after my mission. Some stuff I was able to reconcile, and I never wanted to just dump it all either. My spiritual witness was a powerful one and my spiritual experiences keep me afloat. With that, I will say that my faith has evolved, sometimes in slow progressive steps and sometimes in painful growths. I’m not sure where I am on a lot of little issues, but underlying I have been able to separate the church organization from the gospel, which was different from separating the church from the people.

I’m not a fan of dumping anything too quickly, I think of the salamander letter and those that jumped ship over something that they didn’t see the outcome of.

In dealing with people the maxim “We are all imperfect beings, dealing with other imperfect beings, and we’re doing it imperfectly.” Goes a long way for me in dealing with people who have differing opinions.

Welcome and hope to hear your perspectives.

My mom knows I’m doubting. She knows the issues I’m doubting. She has never been the most active but she believes the church is good, as do I. However my grandparents were basically my other parent, and are very TBM. I was home over the break and didn’t want to go to church my last day home and my grandpa gave me a chastising scripture as I got on the plane (out of love and concern, of course). I love them as much as I love my mom and I’m afraid of hurting them. I’m their oldest grandchild, first to go on a mission, etc. I’ve never rebelled and always been the “perfect” grandchild. I feel like me falling away would destroy them and cut years off their lives.

I just want to point out that it isn’t an all or nothing proposition. You can stay in the church on your own terms. I believe some things about the church and doubt others. I am willing to serve and contribute to the church in some capacities and not others. I choose to conform to certain expected LDS behaviors and not others (i.e. I follow the WoW, wear garments, go to church but I also watch rated “R” movies, work on sundays in a casino, and drink soda).

Right now it feels that you must be “all in” or bail and there will be plenty of people that will try to tell you that. Don’t believe them. This is your life and your journey.

P.S. Whatever you do wait until after you graduate. BYU offered a great education and you don’t want to put that at risk… especially so close to graduation.

I have glanced at the responses and of course they are all good.

My points are

Take it slow. I am sure you desperately want the emotional turmoil to end. You have to work through it. Often people just jump ship quickly and end up staying in a stage of anger and “I can’t believe I was so stupid” mode. That isn’t all that healthy or mature. If the “church is true” it will be so in a year from now and if it isn’t true it won’t be in a year.

Be patient with your friends. When they preach at you, show them nothing but love. When/if your Grandpa give you a lecture, respond with something like, “Thank you for caring/loving me so much you are willing to tell me when you feel I am doing something wrong. I appreciate that and I have to tell you that I AM trying to work through these issues. I give you my word.” Fighting fire with fire will only burn the bridge between you, but you can let them know you are standing on a different part of the bridge.

Sorry you had to do this at BYU, but also realize that some of us are going through this and can’t even talk with our spouse about it. Also be glad you are encountering this earlier in life. Some books on this say that the older you are, the harder you fall.

How could I have had such spiritual experiences when the doubts I am having are all related to the foundation of the church?

I have a theory on that. I too felt the overwhelming spirituality when I prayed about whether the church is true. But there came a point in my life when the church stopped “working” for me.

As I learned more and more about the anomalies and experienced leadership abuse things changed. I found that in spite of the myths I heard at church — that no one is paid, when GA’s are in fact paid. That Mountain Meadows Massacre did occur, that JS had many wives that were married to other men, Fannie Alger, the Priesthood ban repudiation, etcetera, I found it hard to reconcile these facts with my testimony.

I now believe that at that point in my life — when I got my testimony — the LDS church was the best place I could be. I needed, and wanted the structure, I wanted the service, and admired the organization and emphasis on execution in the church, and I loved the Book of Mormon and concept of a pre-mortal life. I had engaged with it, and saw no other alternatives that were attractive to me. It would produce net good in my life (and did for many years), so after repeated prayers about it, God said “OK”. The net good it would create for me was positive, and there were no other alternatives in which I was interested, so he allowed me to do it and gave me the testimony I wanted. I also believe that after the discussions, I would probably not have committed to any other religion, as even today, they all seem inferior to me.

If I can draw an analogy. I want to found a non-profit that improves a community I am part of. There is an existing group of people who work hard for the community, and have a lot of talent and relationships, as well as achievements in community improvement. I have joined them and gained some credibility with them, and influence. However, the person most likely to be president of this non-profit from this group is a bit of a controversial figure in the community. A lot of people see her as divisive, and she has, in fact, created disunity and polarization among a fairly large group of people through some of her behavior.

In my view, she is not the “perfect face” to head up this non-profit. At the same time, she has A LOT of influence with local business people, and many of the HOA presidents. Also, she knows me, I know her, and she and her friends WANT to get more formal in their organization. They also have a large social media reach they have built up over the last few years — it is quite an accomplishment.

To find a different set of people to help me found this non-profit would be a lot of work and I had to do that, I would probably not pursue the idea of a formal non-profit. I think it’s impractical because success with people in business and non-profit contexts depends on relationships. relationships, relationships, relationships. I would rather have a different president, but taken with the difficulty of finding a different group of people with the social media reach, and desire to found the non-profit, I decided to work with her and propose, to this group, to formalize themselves into a legal non-profit. So, in spite of the weaknesses of this lady, there is net good, and so I think I will help them found this non-profit with her as president of the board of directors.

I wonder if God looked at my question about Mormonism the same way. He knew it wasn’t perfect for me– and maybe not for my whole life. But at that time, it was good for me and had enough positives that he would give me a testimony in spite of the warts the church sports. I was connected to a Mormon who got me the discussions. attended church, admired the church, and even wanted to serve a mission before I even had a testimony (in concept). So, God saw the pieces were in place, that other churches were not palatable to me, so he looked at the net good, and said “Sure — go for it — this will bless your life for a long time, and is the best alternative for you right now, in spite of its weaknesses”.

I also think God cares less about the truth than we think. I think he cares more about the impact your beliefs have on your personal growth and character, and if that means encouraging you to believe something that is for your good, he will do it through the HOly Ghost, even if you end up believing things that are false, and perhaps even in the long run, are inconsequential when compared to the net good those beliefs bring to your life. Half of what we tell ourselves are falsehoods anyway — to preserve our inner peace.