Falling Apart

I am really struggling. I was given the CES letter 4 months ago from solid family members who have now left the church and I am now reeling!

Can you expand on what the CES letter is? To me CES means Church Education System and I’m not aware of any letter, what its contents might hold, and what its implications are…

I am really struggling. I was given the CES letter 4 months ago from solid family members who have now left the church and I am now reeling!

Can you expand on what the CES letter is? To me CES means Church Education System and I’m not aware of any letter, what its contents might hold, and what its implications are…

There was a guy that left the church. His grandfather knew someone that was high up in CES – I think a “CES Director”. The grandfather said, “write out all your issues and I will pass it on to my CES Director friend and he will answer it all.

So essentially the letter is a concise list (like a small book) of all the issues that have caused him to doubt. So it is a heavy blow to just sit down and read for an hour or two. I can see someone reading this and doing them in. It is well written. I know there are responses like I think from Adam Miller that are rebuttals, but I can’t say they did much for me.

slowlylosingit – Oh how I feel your pain. The only thing I can say is that I have had to give it time. I was ready to quit the church while serving in a bishopric. I held on for a bit in that I love my bishop and I didn’t want to have him to handle this – and the issues with my family. I am not at that point now a year to year and a half later. I still can’t say I am in my final state, but I certainly can say that you are in the faith CRISIS part. It is normal, but VERY painful. Expect to be very confused, eventually even very angry, then you might be able to start handling this better. At least that is my experience.

I just saw Silent Dawning’s signature of, “”Stage 5 is where you no longer believe the gospel as its literally or traditionally taught. Nonetheless, you find your own way to be active and at peace within it”. — SD

There is a book by a guy name Fowler and you are definitely going from stage 3 (where most people are) into stage 4. Stage 4 of faith is not fun. I am in no way out of it, but I have a toe in there – maybe 2 toes.

slowlylosingit,

I’m so sorry that you are going through this. It’s tough and there is no quick remedy. But I hope that you can soon find some rays of light to help you begin to find a way forward. I can tell you unequivocally that:

This is the right place.

There are many, many people on this site that have gone through what you are suffering now. Some are going through it currently. They can still find their balance and plenty of ways to smile again, no matter how impossible that sounds right now.

Let me make just a couple of quick observations. 1) I only know about the CES letter from what LookingHard described above. Based solely on that explanation, I assume that the letter is fake. That it is likely a summation of issues with the Church, probably more or less accurate, but put into the voice of a CES director to make it sound more authoritative. Sort of like in the New Testament, where those terrible writings about women shutting up in Church and asking their husbands if they have any questions, rather than speaking up in Church, sort of like how those statements have long been attributed to Paul, but scholars now believe for the most part that they originated at a later time. None of this means that the CES letter is totally false, but I just wouldn’t read it with any expectation that it is authentically from the Church. 2) Not everyone is a believer in Fowlers stages of faith. I’m not. If it helps you, great. But don’t let it become a weight around your neck. I think there is a lot of truth in the general sense, but personally, I don’t like to be labeled… not by me and especially not by someone else. I believe sincerely that my path is totally and completely unique to me. Is it? I don’t really know, but I find a lot of comfort in the concept. I am finding my own way, not a way proscribed by anyone else… not the Church… not this site… not Fowler.

You said you want to believe, so let me offer some suggestions for how to find something to believe in. I could title this section, “What I wish I knew then.” None of these suggestions may help you. I don’t know. But I offer them, because they did help me.

– When I had my faith crisis… long ago… I found myself struggling with similar things to what you describe. I think in my case, and it’s probably somewhat common, I became obsessed with truth, accuracy, details, facts. It took me, I don’t know, more than a decade and a half to come to the realization that religion or spirituality isn’t about facts. Think about it. You know in your heart what spirituality is about. I don’t need to tell you. It has nothing to do with . Concentrate on what it does mean. The battle that was in front of me back then was to find meaning in spirituality, but I arrayed my forces to fight a different battle: historical accuracy. I believe that the Church will eventually shift away from the history. It has started to do so already, with the tremendous step of the essay on race and the priesthood, in which the Church basically spelled out that it was a practice that arose from the environment, after all, it was legal to own another human being in the US when this practice came about. And I see that as a great step forward, because I think that eventually the Church will concentrate far far more on the here and now… feeling the spirit… committing to Christ… living the Two Great Commandments above all else. That’ll be a great day. I think the Church is already kind of acknowledging, not fast enough, but getting there, that the beginnings of the Church were often strange from our 21st Century perspective, and that what we have is more about today than yesterday.

– I found great comfort reading in the New Testament. Let me share just a couple of scriptures that calmed my rollercoaster: John 1:3-5. I use the NRSV, because I think it is more clear, and therefore more powerful. Speaking of Jesus: “What has come into being in him was life, and that life was the light of all people. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not overcome it.” By “not overcome” the writer was talking about “not absorb it” “not stop it from shining” “not catch it” “not master it”. I love the imagery. Also, John 4:14, and here I use the KJV: “whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.” Finally, I recommend reading the Gospel According to Mark. It was the first Gospel written. Each of the Gospels portrayed Jesus in a unique way. Mark is the most… human… description of Jesus. It’s my favorite of the four, although they all are great. The reason I suggest these scriptures is to get straight to the parts of the gospel that matter, and leave the history of Joseph Smith alone for now.

– Others have said, and will say this, but find out what you DO believe, and then use that as a foundation for all other discussions.

I wish you the best in your days and weeks ahead. I feel for you, and I hope that we can help you (I know we can). I look forward to your presence here as we all share your burden. Eventually, if you stay, you will be able to share the burden of others.

I am terrified of the consequences that I might face if I can’t believe again. My poor DH is so supportive, but I can see the pain in his face and the exhaustion from not sleeping. He is trying to help me find my answers, but knows he can’t save me. I want to believe so badly, but I don’t know how to anymore. I am exhausted and can feel myself giving up. I have come here to find support and to talk to people that maybe feel the way I do. How do I navigate this?

I would suggest a few things.

a) Realize you don’t have to do anything immediately. Although an emotional crisis, this is not a physical crisis where if you don’t act immediately, something will hit you. You can still go to church, have a spouse, and do almost everything you were doing before the crisis. This crisis you are facing is invisible to most of the world. If you can let yourself realize that, then a lot of pressure you feel might dissipate.

b) Get comfortable on a paradigm where you are still a Mormon, but not believing everything for the time being. You can do that — I have done it. I can go to a meeting and sit there and listen, process things silently, talk to people about non-doctrinal things. You can socialize and be caring and serve people — all while having doubts.

c) Do a cost-benefit analysis regarding your spouse. Weigh the cost of being “authentic” about church matters with the cost to your relationship — in the cost to your spouse’s emotional well-being, the actual relationship between you — whatever is important. I find those things are more important than being “authentic” — just as keeping my job is more important than being open with the managers about their sometimes destructive behavior.

d) Eventually, something will come up where you have to act or make a decision — a TR expires, you get asked to speak on something you’re not comfortable with — something will come up. Fortunately, these things tend to happen one at a time. Post the conundrum here and get some perspectives. You’ll get perspectives that will help you make up your mind, one step at a time.

e) Regarding consequences if you don’t believe again. I would relax about that one. Do you think God will judge you regarding your heart at a static point in time? I think not! You are a growing, changing person, with much good in your life that he will reward. You are trying to restore your faith, and God does looketh upon the heart. He is patient, and he sees eternity. I would put that fear out of your mind for the time being, and work at dealing with the issues. I also take comfort in the fact that there is so much confusion and lack of clarity on spiritual issues, and point to things — like the CES letter, that causes one to doubt. I am prepared to ask him on Judgment day why, if it’s so important to believe, there are so many obstacles and problems without satisfactory answers? In fact, i wonder if he’s intentionally ambiguous about truth so he doesn’t have to hold us strictly accountable — and can therefore, be merciful!

f) Avoid opening up to local leaders. That is dangerous, in my view, and can put you in a “box” that is hard to get out of when you are ready to recommit. Keep your doubts to yourself or express them here where you can discuss them in a non-judgmental way with others, without the box-labelling that you get when you open up to people locally.

The process of reconstruction takes time — allow yourself that time, while preserving your inner peace. You may still be able to take comfort in prayer, asking for strength and peace. If you still believe in God (I assume you probably do) then rely on that for temporary help and peace.

But then I think of eternity and I cant bear the thought of losing my family, that I would be left behind and could watch my DH and children go on without me.

Hi, slowlylosingit – I’m glad you’re here. :wave:

Everyone here can empathize with you. I’m quoting one small thought from your posts, just to make a prediction: that in a very short time you won’t be worried about this. You’ll have different ways of looking at your situation, different ways of framing the problem, better emotional resources to cope with the changes you’re going through, etc.

This site has been a godsend for me. I hope you’ll feel welcome here, too.

I agree. Things will never look just the same, but life can be good.

I also want to comment on

e) Regarding consequences if you don’t believe again. I would relax about that one. Do you think God will judge you regarding your heart at a static point in time?

Before too long in my faith crisis, I put all my faith into God leading me. I said, “if you are trying to tell me it is all made up, please bring it on a bit stronger. But if there is truth in the church – please bring it on a bit stronger.” After a while of honestly pleading that, I feel like I am absolutely trying to follow God. I can’t see how he can be mad at me or punish me when my heart is pleading for help. I trust he knows my heart and I have faith/hope he is a just God.

I feel for you teaching seminary this year. I was worried they would ask me. My answer would be, “No. The outcome will be bad. Either I will leave the church, or you will kick me out for teaching all of the REAL truths along with the whitewashed history.”

My own faith crisis hit me while I was Gospel Doctrine teacher. I got to the point where I couldn’t teach what I didn’t believe. I did share that with my bishop at the time and I asked to be released. Shortly thereafter I stopped attending church and was away for about 10 years. A couple things made the difference for me, most notably Pres. Uchtdorf’s “Come, Join With Us.” I was a true believer, had been a counselor to two bishops, YMP, etc. While I am active now and hold a calling and a temple recommend, I do not believe the way I did before. Probably most people here would refer to this as a faith transition, and that’s pretty accurate – I still have faith but it’s different than it was before. If I were to use the analogy of a building, after the old faith building collapsed I used parts of that old building to rebuild, but some parts are not used and are discarded. Likewise, there are some new parts that weren’t there before. The building now serves the same purpose, it just doesn’t look like it did before, and in fact is a bit smaller (but arguably stronger).

I relate to your thread title “Falling Apart” because that’s what I felt also – like everything just fell apart or crumbled around me. My whole world changed, at least from my point of view. You’ve gotten some great comments so far, I just wanted to specifically address a couple things.

I am losing my way and I am losing my hope.

Don’t lose hope. Don’t give up. All is not lost, even though it might seem that way from where you are standing. Look from a different perspective, as Terryl and Fiona Givens teach in Crucible of Doubt (which I recommend for you), there are paradigms in our points of view. It’s time to change your paradigms.

I feel like I am failing everyone around me, and failing the Lord.

Consider the idea that these are your feelings, not God’s. If He is omnipotent, He knows your heart and mind, and if He is anything like what we’re taught He is like, He loves you so much so that he gave His Son for you. That is a free gift, he asks almost nothing in return (only perhaps that you believe in His Son).

Hang in there, slow down, look for things you do believe (extenuate the positive) and look for other things you can believe, be the good mom and wife you have always been. Pres. Uchtdorf was only the start of my return to church – coming here played the biggest role. You are in the right place. May you find the peace you seek.

My comments will I’ll echo many others. I wanted to highlight a few comments:

My DH struggled with these things years ago and has come through to the other side and is very faithful. His brother left the church because of all of this about 10 years ago and after 7 years came back to full activity and faithful again. I want to be like them. I want to be able to see through all of this and be okay with it.

It took me, I don’t know, more than a decade and a half to come to the realization that religion or spirituality isn’t about facts.

My own faith crisis hit me while I was Gospel Doctrine teacher. I got to the point where I couldn’t teach what I didn’t believe. I did share that with my bishop at the time and I asked to be released. Shortly thereafter I stopped attending church and was away for about 10 years.

It takes time… and that’s one of the more bitter pills to swallow. It’s not a fun process, it’s a painful one, and it’s only natural to want the pain to be over as soon as possible. I’ll echo mom3 in pointing out how it’s awesome to have people in your family that are in a position to give advice and to be examples but it can be a double edged sword. You might feel rushed to arrive where they currently are at but growth can’t be rushed. Kind of like how some children are anxious to be as tall or taller than a parent but it requires years and years and lots of growing pain – in fact if they were to grow any quicker it would only result in more pain and a weaker structure.

“Letter to a CES Director” is a rough place to start. By the time I got my hands on it I only found a few items I hadn’t already been exposed to. Similar to nature, five inches of a little rain here and a little rain there with breaks over an extended period of time can alleviate drought conditions. Five inches of rain in one event will only cause damaging floods and the drought will ironically remain after the floodwaters are gone. That’s another reason to take the process slowly.

I am losing my way and I am losing my hope. I feel lost and alone. How can the Lord help them through this and I feel like I am being left behind? I don’t know how to find my faith again.

I felt exactly that. I might describe the greatest pain of my FC as a complete loss of purpose. The future held nothing. It took time, time where I felt completely alone. There was a time where even Jesus felt completely abandoned, even by his father. Sometimes when I reflect on Jesus and remember the scripture in Alma about how he suffered all that he might know how to succor his people I think: if that’s the case then surely Jesus went through a faith crisis. He knows what it’s like. Having been through a faith crisis myself I wouldn’t leave someone behind in that condition… and I’m pretty rough around the edges. The lord assuredly isn’t going to leave you behind.

Man, when I write this all out, I sound so irrational, I swear I am usually pretty level headed.

We might sound irrational to people that have never shared our experiences but you sound very rational to me/us.

How do I navigate this?

It’s hard to say. I think the “solution” is going to be unique to the individual. IMO there’s no one solution. Like On Own Now a part of my solution was letting go of history, letting go of the facts. My salvation wasn’t going to be found in the lives lived by other people, it was going to be found in my life, which is lived in the present. Letting go wasn’t an easy process, partially because I didn’t even want to let go for the longest time. Maybe I haven’t even let completely go of things yet but I view it as a process, not an event.

I could ramble a lot more but I’ve got to run. Welcome to the site, interactions with people here went a very long way towards me rediscovering purpose.