Follow the Prophet, and everyone else…

Today hurt my heart.

. Darn it. Ouch.

Yes, it hurts deep when it’s family. Some random dude can get your ire up, but you can blow it off in time, but family, ARRGGGHH.

Worst part is I do this to my agnostic husband more often than I care to count. And at times his beliefs hit me right between the eyes, and hurt, because I forget that we are different levels of this experience. It stinks.

I hope you find heart healing tonight as you sleep.

I’m sorry to hear that. The issues becomes especially delicate when it involves our spouse.

I had a discussion with my friend about that very issue. My point was that PH leaders are not infallible, I seek personal spiritual confirmation with each new counsel (and it might be the case that the confirmation never comes). Their point was that the spirit testified to them that god calls a person to be a prophet and that witness extends to what they preach. Different styles I guess. I did not press the whatif scenario of a confirmation never coming. A confirmation can be a given when all aspects of a testimony are interwoven. The church is true, the BoM is true, TSM is the prophet… it’s a package deal where they all work together to make a more solid foundation for people. To challenge, doubt, or question one is to challenge, doubt, or question all so it’s easier to give people a pass.

Communication is difficult to establish but it sounds like you did the right thing; rephrase what you understood from their communication and give them an opportunity to clarify what they meant. At least he didn’t double-down.

I share with you in the nauseum. Such a testimony would also bother me. It’s training people to be good Mormons rather than good people — Church-u-monies and Leader-monies are to be taken with a grain of salt Some are given to ingratiate oneself to the leaders, to seek position implicitly. Others are simply parroting back what the people have been taught, and some people are very sincere in their beliefs about the inspired nature of the leadership.

For me, such leadership worship is a recipe for unrealistic expectations, disappointment, and broken testimonies.

Next time I hear a testimony like that, I might be tempted to get up and give a counterbalancing testimony of some kind.

I have waited a while to respond and explain any more about my husband and his testimony, mostly because I found the comments of OON hurtful and I was offended. I understand no offense was intended, but I was hurt anyway. He is right that I came to vent, and I felt he basically told me to deal with it privately with my husband. I get it, but I cannot do that at this time. My husband doesn’t discuss these things with me, and his testimony was, or at least it seemed, a direct response to a conversation we had had earlier. I told him that I didn’t believe that EVERY leader ALWAYS speaks for God. I expressed my belief that plenty of leaders have their own opinion, and that members have the right and obligation to prayerfully go to The Lord and ask if a particular leader’s advice or counsel is of God. We didn’t discuss this very long, because my husband made it clear he disagreed. The next Sunday was TM, and that was his very public testimony. I felt it was a very personal “in your face” testimony. My husband has never made those sorts of comments in a testimony before, and he testifies regularly at church. And it is usually something very similar month in and month out. This was completely different, and it felt personal. It hurt.

I feel like this a place to be able to vent, because where else can we go? As we vent and receive understanding,love, and advice, it can be very helpful. After this post I just felt embarrassed I had even said anything. I realize that was not the intent, but it made me step back and ask if this was a place I needed to be. Again, I know there was no offense intended, and the fact that it was taken is on me. But, I can assure you that my husband will never really “respect” my new faith. He simply doesn’t want to discuss it so that we won’t have contention. I don’t complain about his, and he doesn’t complain about mine. We simply continue to drift apart little by little because the foundation that we shared when we married has crumbled on my side of the building. Is it my fault? I don’t think so, I had so much trust in the Institution. When I discovered the truth they kept hidden, it undermined all that I had before trusted. My husband is a convert. Even though he was shocked to learn about the stone in the hat, it doesn’t matter to him. Nothing matters to him except for the BOM. He says that is true, so nothing else is important. I have been unable to compartmentalize the way he does. Sometimes I wish I could. I am not looking for him to come over to my way of thinking, just for him to recognize that my doubts and hurt have some validity. I don’t expect that will ever happen. And that hurts too.

(Please forgive the rambling pity party I seem to be having, the day at church was fine, I just miss when I had a strong testimony and no doubts. Life seemed simpler then.)

This is a safe place to vent, but it also is a place where you will get all kinds of advice – and some of it will be more direct than others. Some will fit; some won’t.

Generally speaking, OON is correct that when differences entrench and solidify – and when those differences start to define a relationship – the relationship can become difficult to continue. Spouses share responsibility in how situations like that are handled, but the primary responsibility rests with the person who changed, no matter the reason for the change. For many people who are passionate believers, not just within the LDS Church but in every religion and denomination, if a spouse starts to pull away from their former belief it feels like the spouse is pulling away from them. That often leads to more extreme efforts to keep the relationship alive. It just is human nature.

The only advice I can give is to redouble your efforts to make sure your husband knows you love him and won’t leave him, if that is the way you honestly feel. (I am assuming no hardcore abuse is happening when I say that.) Try to show him that you are trying to figure out what you believe but that you still want to be with him, now and forever. That can be complicated by a traditional view of the Celestial Kingdom, but, in the end, as I said in my talk yesterday, the descriptions we have of that kingdom are focused on the heart and one’s effort – NOT on any specific belief or checklist. He might not be able to see that at first, in the middle of grief and even anger, but patience during and after trauma are important – and faith changes can be traumatic for all people who live with and love each other.

God bless you in this.

I have been a part of the faith transition world for nearly a decade. I was the TBM (if they really exist, because I had nuance’s even then), my spouse went first. I clung, struggled, fought, even silence treatmented my way for three or more years. We were on the verge of divorce. Then one day I heard a Sacrament Meeting talk and had a “wut” moment. From then on I began to move my nuance’s. There was much I like about church, but a new conviction structure took over.

Ours isn’t the only marriage I have watched go through this. I can name 4 right off, that felt the strain you are experiencing. In two of those families, the husband was in the Bishopric.

I don’t know all the details of your situation but I wondered last night if you had shared the Gospel Topic Essays with him. It may or may not work, but perhaps if he read some LDS.org material that was less standard maybe it would give you two room to talk. I don’t know, just a thought.

Also – take some personal time and decide what it is you now want in your marriage and family life. Try to picture relationships a few years down the road, the interactions you might still have,etc. I have a cousin whose wife divorced him over faith transition. He remained faithful member, she didn’t, but she still gets the kids. They still have events to attend together. There is no full out – unless you don’t have kids. So decide what you hope to achieve and see if that affects your next steps.

And talk to us, we are always here trying to help.

Hi E4M,

Early on in our marriage we made an agreement not to involve others in our marital disputes. Enlisting supporters would only strengthen opposing positions and make compromise or even capitulation more difficult. We have kept this agreement for the most part.

In the early days of my faith crisis there were some times that I felt DW sold me out. I had testified one Sunday that I was confident we would be with my deceased daughter again. In talking to her friend later about my FC, she pointed out that my believe in our eternal family is now independant of our temple covenants.

I had long conversations with my family members and they were amazingly supportive. DW would sometimes try to paint my FC to them in a more dangerous light. She saw them as somwhat of enablers and felt that if they knew how far my FC had progressed they would cease to be supportive.

For the longest time she would get angry when I said that I don’t think it likely that I could change back to the way i was before. To her it was just me being lazy with a defeatest attitude.

It sounds like your husband was doing something somewhat similar. He may have been drawing support from the church community and making it clear to you that you did not have support there.

He should have made it clear that he loves you, chooses you, and supports you now and always.

Unfortunately people do not always make the best choices – especially when they are driven by hurt, fear, or anger. I hope that deep down your husband is a good willed person and not someone that would enjoy publicly shaming you like that.

The good news is that now 5 years later DW and I are in a much better place. We have had positive discussions about my perspective and she seems more understanding. In return, I withhold permanent judgement about things that might be true (however unlikely they seem to me).

Good luck! I know the journey is long but we can share the road for a while.