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In Luke 23:34 is says: Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.
So this is my question: how does this correlate with 2 Nephi 9:25?
Wherefore, he has given a law; and where there is no law given there is no punishment; and where there is no punishment there is no condemnation; and where there is no condemnation the mercies of the Holy One of Israel have claim upon them, because of the atonement; for they are delivered by the power of him.
If in fact they did not know what they were doing, as Christ says, then why does the Father have to forgive them? If Christ is omnipotent, we have to take that he knows what he is talking about, and the men that crucified him did not know what they were doing. So there was no law, and there can be no punishment. So why did Christ ask his Father to do something that was a forgone conclusion?
So everyone around him could learn a lesson and stop condemning people who act out of ignorance? To show that scriptures aren’t inerrant?
To give us reasons to come up with reasons?
:ugeek: Ray, are you stocking me? 
😆 From the very beginning of my faith crisis, I’ve come to the conclusion that God is much more forgiving than the viewpoint I had before hand; like many others here I had a very black and white view and I’ve transitioned into a “shades of grey” type view. Christ I think, is saying they don’t understand the severity of the action they’re committing- murder ? Old-Timer wrote:So everyone around him could learn a lesson and stop condemning people who act out of ignorance?
metalrain wrote:From the very beginning of my faith crisis, I’ve come to the conclusion that God is much more forgiving than the viewpoint I had before hand; like many others here I had a very black and white view and I’ve transitioned into a “shades of grey” type view. Christ I think, is saying they don’t understand the severity of the action they’re committing- murder ?
I like these answers.
You could also look at it as being the perfect thing to say if you were trying to lay down the ultimate guilt trip.
:angel: metalrain wrote:From the very beginning of my faith crisis, I’ve come to the conclusion that God is much more forgiving than the viewpoint I had before hand; like many others here I had a very black and white view and I’ve transitioned into a “shades of grey” type view. Christ I think, is saying they don’t understand the severity of the action they’re committing- murder ?
I also have come to that conclusion. I used to feel I was certainly going to not make it to the celestial kingdom because I sometimes would have a coke. I have to laugh at that when reading the history of Joseph Smith. If he was a prophet and the Lord could still work through him, I need to not worry about my unworthiness as much as I need to worry about doing good.
Quote:Looks like you looked for all my posts so you could answer them.
Nope, just commenting on the most recent posts in the feed. It’s how many of us operate regularly. Thus, when you comment on a bunch of posts, those comments are more likely to receive comments.
Old-Timer wrote:Quote:Looks like you looked for all my posts so you could answer them.
Nope, just commenting on the most recent posts in the feed. It’s how many of us operate regularly. Thus, when you comment on a bunch of posts, those comments are more likely to receive comments.
But Ray is quite wise and smart – and prepared.Could it be that Christ himself felt wronged, and for the sake of his own heart, and the fact the he too was the Father Incarnate, was trying to encourage himself to forgive them on a personal level, independent of any law? Or that his statement was not law-based — it was “self-based”, or perhaps it was Christ acting as the exemplary person — examplifying to the world of what to do when you feel personally wronged by someone — ask God to forgive them, and recognize that they don’t know what they are doing. These latter measures could conceivably bring humanity at large, peace, if they apply them in their own lives. I vaguely remember an interpretation of this from…seminary? Institute? I’ve no idea if it’s right, but I’ll share it anyway. The teacher interpreted it that Christ was asking the Father to forgive the Roman soldiers because they didn’t know that they were crucifying the Son of God; whereas the Jews had warning and belief in the Savior coming to rescue them from Roman control and occupation, the Romans didn’t have that. Well, like, they knew the claims that he was “King of the Jews,” but the teacher emphasized different expectations of the Jews versus the Romans.
On the other hand, a lot of meaning gets lost in centuries and centuries of translation from one language to another, so who knows for sure?
I’m not big on history and scriptural interpretation, though, (which I’m sure will go over very well in the mission field) so correct as you will.
😆 West, I’ve also heard that interpretation during church lessons. I would assume if I heard it in a seminary/institute class, it might be somewhat a common sort of thing. Yet, it is impossible to be saved in ignorance.
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