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I have a question. The scriptures are replete with examples of men who did things that made them miserable out of obedience. One situation where I think the church would say that this choice — between obedience over happiness — is in accepting callings. I was offerred once recently and it was a near no-brainer to say “no” to it, as I am on the “maximize personal happiness plan”. This plan does NOT mean that I always act out of wordly pleasure maximization, but it does mean that I follow Steve Job’s advice that “if you find you are doing too many things you don’t like, too many days in a row, it’s time to make changes”.
You can often tell whether a particular calling is going to fall into the “unpleasant, too many days in a row” category, particularly if you’ve done it before.
Should we show obedience even when it makes us suffer like Job? Under what circumstances (not just callings, which I personally feel is unjustifiable without some kind of direct, divine communication).
Suffer like Job? No. Suffer in some way, to some degree. Sure, sometimes.
Obey, no matter what? God, usually yes, based on our own understanding; humans, absolutely not, no matter who they are. It is interesting to look at Abraham trying to talk God out of destroying cities.
During today’s SS lesson we discussed the following scripture. John 7:17 wrote:If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.
The discussion centered around doing his will and then we’ll know. Here I believe Alma would say experiment upon the word.
SilentDawning wrote:You can often tell whether a particular calling is going to fall into the “unpleasant, too many days in a row” category,
particularly if you’ve done it before. In that case it sounds as if you’ve already done the experiment.
I often use the body of Christ analogy. If I know I’m a foot I’m fairly certain I’d be miserable trying to fill in for a hand. The lack of an opposable thumb is going to come up and bite me some day. Accepting callings we haven’t experimented with can help us figure out which body part we are.
Lately I’ve felt like an appendix, nobody can figure out what the heck to do with me. Either I don’t fit or people don’t understand how I fit. Hopefully the church scientists will be patient with me and recognize that if the church ever gets cholera or dysentery that my role was to be a reserve for the good bacteria that can be used to reboot the digestive process. Time will tell. Until then I’ll just sit and collect all the fingernails that people eat.
nibbler wrote:Until then I’ll just sit and collect all the fingernails that people eat.
LOL!!! Nibbler, you are the life of the StayLDS party!
As to the OP I believe that overarching happiness is often found with a sense of overarching purpose. If the obedience in questions fits in with the overarching purpose of your life (regardless of temporary unpleasantness) then it will tend to contribute to the lasting sense of fulfillment. If the obedience does not fit in with your sense of purpose then it does not have that benefit.
Since I currently view my church participation as relatively independant of my life purpose (maybe as parallel or intertwined but not as cause and effect – it is complicated.
Happiness over obedience for me. In some instances obedience helps me be happy. Not murdering people has worked out pretty well, I think I’m happier for being obedient to that law. (Ok, silly example) Sometimes I’m obedient because I told someone I would be and that relationship is important. I do the best I can at my current calling because I like my SP (I have no idea if God exists or cares) and I care about being part of the community. Other things I’m not obedient to because I don’t care and being obedient to it doesn’t make me happier (Sabbath day for example. I just don’t care about it, we go out to eat sometimes, I go to the store, we go hiking and watch TV. We don’t sit around in our church clothes and read scriptures – that TO ME seems like pure hell).
So I say pick your spots, and do what works best.
Nibbler, best analogy ever!! Hilarious!
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I have many Chinese colleagues and in general they work really long hours and make large contributions to mankind yet they aren’t having any fun. Then there are Americans who live it up, enjoy their lives, but don’t contribute much. I can’t decide who is right. Neither. Moderation is harder than extremes, but it is where real growth and enlightenment occur, imo.
Old-Timer wrote:Neither.
Moderation is harder than extremes, but it is where real growth and enlightenment occur, imo.
+1 I’ve had multiple discussions recently about either/or situations, which are false dichotomies to me for the most part. I’ve tried both ends of the spectrum for religion and spirituality and am coming to the conclusion that neither side has all of the answers and it would be best for me to lear from both. Echoing what Ray said, it IS harder than an extreme. But just because it’s no longer as easy doesn’t mean it’s not where I want to be.
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