This is interesting

It reminds me of an article I read some time ago arguing a Mormon approach to stem cell research. 1) stem cell research has the potential to help many. 2) That when life begins according to Mormons is less well defined. BY had said something about a quickening when the spirit enters the body and that the mother can feel it. This would mean that feltilized embryos would not necessarily qualify as human life.

Pragmatic.

This is an article from “The Economist” magazine titled: Young, Tolerant and Surprising…For those of you who live in Utah (or have lived), is this accurate?

To be honest I think the author has read way too much into a few facts and examples when it seems like there are just as many if not easily more counter-examples. To me the most significant point in the article is the following observation which seemed to be largely overshadowed by some of the other conclusions and ideas that were put forward.

…the Mormon church has a direct influence on the state’s politics. The sexual-discrimination bill passed largely because the church supported it, says Tim Chambless, a political scientist at the University of Utah.

In fact, former Utah congressman Carl Wimmer that also left the LDS Church to become an evangelical Christian basically said the Church was strongly lobbying for or against various bills behind the scenes. Well when over 80% of the state legislators are LDS sometimes all it takes is for a few key voters to simply know which side the Church supports to effectively determine the outcome and there is nothing surprising about the fact that whatever the Church says basically goes to the extent that it currently does here.

This much is true not only in the case of this “anti-discrimination” bill (which also actually protects discrimination in some cases under the pretext of defending religious freedom) and legislation that is more friendly to illegal immigrants than many of the more xenophobic conservatives would prefer to see but also in the case of things like Utah’s draconian alcohol regulations such as the infamous limit of 3.2% alcohol by weight (4.0% by volume) for beer sold in grocery and convenience stores. In other words, Utah looks like it is still as close to a pure theocracy as you are ever going to find in the US for an entire state from border-to-border.

Basically I’ll believe Utah has embraced tolerance and a “practical” brand of conservatism in a meaningful and surprising way as soon as I can buy full-strength Natural Ice for the same cheap price that frat boys in other states can. As it is, the reality of the situation is that my beer choices are restricted to all this weak 3.2 percent beer or paying 2-3 times more per beer minimum at the state liquor stores. It sounds like some people have gone on beer runs all the way to Wyoming because of this unfair situation which, of course, is also illegal.

I think the current younger generations are far more tolerant than any previous generations. To them being openly gay generally carries no stigma, for instance. As we Boomers (I don’t consider myself a Boomer, I was at the very end, but we don’t get our own pigeon hole) die off these people will become the mainstay stalwarts of society and that cannot help but permeate the church as well. I wish I wasn’t dying off, I’d like to be around to see it. (I secretly wish I will be more like LTP than BKP )

Agreed…to an extent. I do agree younger generations are far more tolerant but not as tolerant as we get a rap for. I think part of the reason both sides of the Gay Rights debate are so divided is because there’s a lack of understanding. A lot of convervatives/boomers lament that being LGBTQ is the cool thing now, that it’s a fad. Even though that may be true in some areas, in many places in the US (including most of Utah) coming out will still have a huge negative social stigma, and may lead to being severely bullied and rejected by members of your family. Coming out as Transgender is still a nightmarish ordeal for many teenagers across the country and almost half of transgender youth attempt suicide. I recall that these statistics are even worse in Utah.

On another note, I think the article is accurate. Utah, to me, is more mainstream republican than conservative, but it also has its share of staunch conservatives, as well. The Church is undeniably a strong lobbying force in Utah, though. And it’s true that a lot of its lobbying goes on behind the scenes. However, I can tell you there are Mormon Republican leaders that are put off by the Church’s involvement in politics; they’re just not going to say that publicly.

So, the answer is to ignore completely all evidence that contradicts one’s view and highlight only the evidence that supports one’s view? Thus, Utah is an ultra-conservative state that is no different than all other ultra-conservative states…Seriously, DA, what exactly about the article is incorrect? It said that Utah has passed multiple pieces of legislation on multiple fronts that other conservative states are not passing. Nowhere in the article does it even imply that Utah is some kind of liberal state in disguise – that it is extremely tolerant when compared with states that vote consistently liberal…It’s one thing to disagree with an article; it’s another thing entirely to dismiss an article by attacking a straw man that isn’t claimed in the article…There are liberal voting states that have restrictive alcohol laws. That absolutely is not a Utah issue, except in exact rule and degree.

I never said this was the worst article ever written; actually I thought it made some decent points at least as far as highlighting some of the differences between Utah and other conservative states. The real question here is what exactly do these differences mean? I guess the author thought some of these differences were surprising mostly because the state voted so strongly Republican in recent elections. However, to me the article mostly served as a reminder of just how much the Church continues to meddle in politics when I would much rather see them stay out of politics and simply let people vote based on their own conscience and best judgment more than what we have seen so far.

That’s where I disagree with the article because it gives the impression that this religious influence has supposedly been mostly positive and a good example for Republicans in other states to follow but to me it looks like the results have been very hit-and-miss so words like surprising, tolerant, and practical are some of the absolute last ways I would think of to describe Utah politics as a whole. Basically the Church has its own agenda that is independent from the Republican party much less extremist pundits on conservative talk radio, Fox News, etc., for example the Church has many Latin American members in the US and other countries so it’s not really that much of a surprise at all that they wouldn’t want to crack down on illegal immigrants the way some Arizona laws did.

Similarly the Church’s PR image took a hit over their involvement in Prop. 8 so it’s not really that much of a surprise that they would want to do something to try to separate their stance against same-sex marriage from the popular notion that it is mostly about discrimination and bigotry rather than a religious issue to them. Big deal, none of that changes the fact that they have repeatedly shown that they are more than willing to draw a hard line and defend it at all costs in a way that could hardly be any less tolerant and practical as far as American politics go in the case of what they consider to be important “moral” issues and Gordon B. Hinckely already admitted as much in the following quote from the talk, “Why We Do Some of the Things We Do.”

I hasten to add that we deal only with those legislative matters which are of a strictly moral nature or which directly affect the welfare of the Church. We have opposed gambling and liquor and will continue to do so. We regard it as not only our right but our duty to oppose those forces which we feel undermine the moral fiber of society…There is no justification to redefine what marriage is. Such is not our right, and those who try will find themselves answerable to God…Some portray legalization of so-called same-sex marriage as a civil right. This is not a matter of civil rights; it is a matter of morality.

In other words, there is no compelling evidence against my view that the Church has already gone out of its way to influence political decisions in an intolerant way (by definition) and there is plenty of evidence that they have already done exactly this on multiple occasions so I don’t see how it is attacking a straw-man to simply disagree with someone calling Utah tolerant in the title of an article about Utah politics when Utah is the epitome of intolerance in many cases.