Facing that inevitable day

From what you tell us of your daughter that day is coming sooner rather than later. A mission would seem to fit her profile.

I’m not sure if your only question is tithing, but you did mention that specifically. I would not endorse “pay to be worthy and quit after the event.” I think tithing is meant to be a sacrifice, and I see it’s practicality for the church as well. While I don’t necessarily think doing the right thing for the wrong reason is always bad, I do think there needs to be a “free” willingness on the part of the payer to contribute. I don’t pay on gross and I don’t expect the windows of heavens to open (mostly because in past experiences I can see the windows don’t necessarily open). From a purely practical point of view, I appreciate that tithing funds the building I use for meetings and activities, that it will fund part of the ward picnic tomorrow, that my kids have received a good education at BYU for in-state tuition, etc. I suppose in some ways I view it as a membership fee, but I get to choose what the fee is in some ways. Still it is a sacrifice for us sometimes. I’m not sure if that’s helpful to you or not.

I have said this before and I will say it again: My biggest regret in life is not participating in these events with my children. They really are once-in-a-lifetime and once they’re done, they’re done. I hope they forgive me for this.

I have said this before and I will say it again: My biggest regret in life is not participating in these events with my children. They really are once-in-a-lifetime and once they’re done, they’re done. I hope they forgive me for this.

Strange how circumstances alter regrets. I regret that I shut out my non-member family by having a temple wedding. I regret that to this day. The people that were there in the temple — none of them are part of my life right now. I hurt my non-mem family for years and years and years.

Now, if my experience proves to be like yours, I will regret that i didn’t do the temple on my daughter’s rites of passage.

For me and me alone, I value less the experiences where I am just a silent witness.

I want to baptise my children.

I want to be in DS’s priesthood line of authority.

I want to prepare my children for the temple experience and be my son’s temple escort for his endowments.

I hope I get to have those experiences.

About tithing and TR and repentance. We are supposed to repent from where we are now. That means if we decide to start paying tithing, we start paying now. It doesn’t mean that we have to go back and catch up for the calendar year. God doesn’t work on a calendar year .. That is a man thing.

And gross vs net .. Years ago, we lived in a military town. A military family and our family got comparing. My husband was self employed. We paid both sides of social security, bought our own health/life/auto/house insurance out of post-tax income, financed our own retirement, and bought our house with an unsubsidized loan . The military family was given free housing, free medical, subsidized life insurance, and retirement benefits. What would be considered gross income in either situation?

I think the church doesn’t use a set formula just for such reasons. Tithing is between you and God.

I wonder if I could also find myself in your situation. I still have one daughter who, unlike her siblings, could end up staying committed. So I share that anxiety with you.

So far as actual experience goes, the last time I had a TR, my motivation was to attend the temple sealing of a niece and I did go about it sincerely at the time. Her parents could not attend, since my BIL is a nevermo and my sister has been at most a cultural member since she graduated from BYU. I went, and I witnessed my niece’s sealing while her parents waited outside. I still feel conflicted. My sister thanked me for traveling out of state and supporting my niece in her choice. The sealing was meaningful to me mainly because I could see in the faces of the betrothed their commitment to each other. I wish her mother could have seen that.

Which is why I also feel like I should have been outside supporting my sister. I do not think I was any more worthy to be inside than she was. How is an Uncle from another State more worthy than the woman who invested so much of her life in her upbringing? It was sad that I had to choose one family member over another in that situation.(Some time after the wedding I sensed in my sister a certain bitterness against the church that I had not noticed before).

So not only must you choose between your family and your integrity. You also can end up choosing between family members with and family members without a TR. There is no win here.

I would like to suggest another avenue that might be fruitful. Make inclusiveness a core value for your family. Tie it to gospel principles. You may be able to steer your daughter toward the choice of a civil ceremony and taking the artificially imposed penalty of waiting a year for the sealing. Perhaps you can help her to see the wait as a positive thing, since she and her husband will have a common goal to work on for their first year of marriage. And if the marriage goes completely south she will not have the complication of cancelling sealing.

Another alternative — spring for a trip to an exotic country that allows temple and civil weddings on the same day….that would allow a civil experience that is inclusive for non-members and non TR holders, while also giving the bride and groom the temple experience.

I have had the same thought, but I am not sure who you have to get permission from or if you could do it without anyone’s permission. Those getting married have to get the live ordinance temple recommend and I can see where you would be able to just tell the bishop where you are getting married. Then you would need to coordinate with the local authorities in the country you are going to on the civil wedding and make sure that is all good. And if the bishop hears that this is the reason, with your luck you are going to catch some flack. What if the non-US temples are warned to screen for this? Or maybe I am just being paranoid.

And will your daughter (and your soon to be son-in-law) go for such an arrangement?

But if you do go through with this, it sure would be nice to make a bit of happy noise about this to call out just how inconsistent this policy is in different countries within the church.

Speaking of this whole thing, I think I am going to approach my SP on voicing my opinion on, “Can you ask above about having the US be like the rest of the world and allow sealing’s shortly after a civil marriage. I do recall the “marriage” ceremony was more like a, “oh right. Before you leave we need to take 2 minutes and do the actual marriage since you are not technically married yet.” Left me scratching my head, but I had other thoughts running in my head that pushed that out (or was it hormones in my blood?).