Preaching for Money – Deseret Book

Rob4Hope asked:

“OK…a little bit of an offshoot here. We are taught in the scriptures that preaching for money, or to get gain, is wrong. So what can be said of the books published by GA’s in these book outlets? “

Here’s what I had to say about that: http://www.wheatandtares.org/16121/passing-the-heavenly-grift/

Read your post, and can see we have a similar thought pattern.

I don’t know the workings of Deseret Book or how they choose material. I do know something that is not OK with me:…we are told (it is in the general handbook even unless mistake) that we are NOT to use ward directories for business purposes, like selling your local stuff to ward members and using your affiliation with them at church for such purposes…like mailing lists, etc.

But, the primary customer for DB are LDS people (is this a fair statement?),…and are LDS people not targeted by GAs for selling their books?

One of the biggest struggles I have with my faith crisis is when I see things that say: “Do what I say, not what I do”….

I do know something that is not OK with me:…we are told (it is in the general handbook even unless mistake) that we are NOT to use ward directories for business purposes, like selling your local stuff to ward members and using your affiliation with them at church for such purposes…like mailing lists, etc.

But, the primary customer for DB are LDS people (is this a fair statement?),…and are LDS people not targeted by GAs for selling their books?

One of the biggest struggles I have with my faith crisis is when I see things that say: “Do what I say, not what I do”….

DB doesn’t use ward directories, or use church channels like advertising over the pulpit or through bishops or the like.

They do have a targeted audience. I don’t see a problem with that.

It might help your faith crisis when you challenge your struggles to make sure you are accurately processing what the church does and doesn’t do, what it teaches and doesn’t teach…not just what the general population assumes. Assumptions and expectations are to be challenged and validated as part of a faith journey.

Your assumptions are your windows to the world. Scrub them off every once in a while, or the light won’t come in. -Alan Alda

My understanding of the book royalties is that they don’t go to the individual apostles but rather to the Church’s funds or designated causes – but I might be wrong about that. I know that wasn’t always the case, since people made a big deal about there being some apostles in the past who were well off and donated the profits from their books. If my memories are correct about this, one of the benefits of the living allowance / stipend / whatever they receive is that nobody has to rely on things like book profits to supplement income.

This is one time when I can’t say for sure that is the case for all of them – but I do know it wasn’t always that way.

I’m torn on the issue of stipends. While it sounds like priestcraft thanks to our Book of Mormon literacy, it also isn’t great if you have people in leadership roles who are so impoverished that they are unable to handle money responsibly either through temptation or through lack of know-how. JS wasn’t exactly a financial genius, let’s be honest.

The stipends are not, IMO, extravagant. Kids in private schools are consistent with how expat assignments are handled in companies, too. It would be unfair if it were a financial hardship or setback to take on a three-year assignment. Expat stipends (I was an expat) are designed to offset the cost of living differential, to outright cover the cost of education for your kids at a comparable school, and to pay moving expenses to and from your home country, as well as giving you the ability to travel to your home country once a year to see to your house and other obligations. Expats bear responsibility for the mortgage on their home (which we covered by renting it out).

In many countries, expat kids are only eligible for private school because the parents aren’t citizens or the curricula are too dissimilar to convey when you return to the US. In our case, my kids went to the Singapore American School that is one of the top ten international private schools, but there were really no other alternatives that weren’t a huge setback. The tuition alone (S$26K per kid per year for my 3 kids, not including bus fees, uniforms, and annual school trips) would have made it impossible for me to accept the assignment, to say nothing of the higher cost of living (Singapore is currently the most expensive city in the world). Bacon was nearly $15 a pound. A 12-pack of Diet Cokes was $9. We’re Mormons. These are staples, not luxuries!

I’m torn on the issue of stipends. While it sounds like priestcraft thanks to our Book of Mormon literacy, it also isn’t great if you have people in leadership roles who are so impoverished that they are unable to handle money responsibly either through temptation or through lack of know-how. JS wasn’t exactly a financial genius, let’s be honest.

The stipends are not, IMO, extravagant. Kids in private schools are consistent with how expat assignments are handled in companies, too. It would be unfair if it were a financial hardship or setback to take on a three-year assignment. Expat stipends (I was an expat) are designed to offset the cost of living differential, to outright cover the cost of education for your kids at a comparable school, and to pay moving expenses to and from your home country, as well as giving you the ability to travel to your home country once a year to see to your house and other obligations. Expats bear responsibility for the mortgage on their home (which we covered by renting it out).

In many countries, expat kids are only eligible for private school because the parents aren’t citizens or the curricula are too dissimilar to convey when you return to the US. In our case, my kids went to the Singapore American School that is one of the top ten international private schools, but there were really no other alternatives that weren’t a huge setback. The tuition alone (S$26K per kid per year for my 3 kids, not including bus fees, uniforms, and annual school trips) would have made it impossible for me to accept the assignment, to say nothing of the higher cost of living (Singapore is currently the most expensive city in the world). Bacon was nearly $15 a pound. A 12-pack of Diet Cokes was $9. We’re Mormons. These are staples, not luxuries!

I’m torn a bit on stipends as well, but I agree with you Hawk. Mission presidents and GAs assigned to other areas are assigned to leave their jobs and homes for a period of years and live in a foreign country. Already wealthy or not, that is a hardship, and while I’m not aware of any that are not “successful” not all are especially wealthy. My son had the opportunity to see the mission president’s handbook. The MP is given a house and a car as well as an unlimited credit card to pay for expenses. If he desires a second car he must provide that without using church funds. His own mission president is not exactly at retirement age and will be unemployed when he returns home (he is a professional and it is possible for him to set up his own small business or work for someone else when he returns). Even the full time GAs who live in SLC are giving up their livelihood to do the work of the church. I think it fair that they receive a stipend – I only wish the church were more upfront about saying so. In the past couple years I have only had one question asked of me by a non-member. She had visited Temple Square and had been told everyone serves without pay and she didn’t believe it.

The problem I have with books is not so much that they earn money for them but that some people view them as scripture or gospel (despite the disclaimer).

The problem I have with books is not so much that they earn money for them but that some people view them as scripture or gospel (despite the disclaimer).

DJ, this is my primary concern, and why I brought up the point. I believe that Deseret Book is a “for profit” organization, and the books they sell, they pay royalties on, etc,..as well as trying to make a few bucks themselves. I have no problem with this…none at all–because I like to read, and I think authors should be paid for their materials.

What I struggle with is not only are some of the books accepted like scripture,…they are sometimes endorsed as such, or even used as such. For example, remember the old Mormon Doctrine mess? Do you remember that Elder Scott, on more than one occasion, said over the pulpit that the book Miracle of Forgiveness was a masterful work, and recommended we should read it? When they were using the manuals in PH Meeting, for example, I remember the SWK manual having extensive quotes from MoF…etc.

I’m sure there are other examples,..perhaps even more contemporary? (I really don’t know).

The idea just makes me a little uneasy inside.

I’ve been teaching GD for over a year now and a good share of the non scripture quotes are from Mormon Doctrine. The manuals are well over 10 years old and the word from Elder Callister at a SS training meeting last week end is a change is coming so we’ll see if BRM scripture lives on.

Deseret Book is one of the aspects of the church that make me extremely uncomfortable. For me, it isn’t just the GA books, but the overall marketing to church members by the church for profit. Yes, DB is a for-profit company, as are several other church-owned businesses. At one point, it occurred to me that there are marketing people from DB who watch conference with notebooks in hand and rapt attention, not for any personal messages, but to glean the quotable gems and turn them into merchandise. Then that merchandise is heavily marketed to the members and DB collects the profit.

Do other religions have their own retailers? I have a friend who owns a Christian-themed store, but the profits from her sales go back to her. Anything she donates to her church is at her discretion.