Home Page Forums General Discussion Joseph C. Phillips on Bill Cosby

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  • #210031
    Anonymous
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    This aired today on CBS Sunday Morning. I thought it touched on some things we often discuss here.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/videos/cosby-show-actor-joseph-c-phillips-on-bill-cosbys-character/” class=”bbcode_url”>http://www.cbsnews.com/videos/cosby-show-actor-joseph-c-phillips-on-bill-cosbys-character/

    #302174
    Anonymous
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    nibbler wrote:

    This aired today on CBS Sunday Morning. I thought it touched on some things we often discuss here.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/videos/cosby-show-actor-joseph-c-phillips-on-bill-cosbys-character/” class=”bbcode_url”>http://www.cbsnews.com/videos/cosby-show-actor-joseph-c-phillips-on-bill-cosbys-character/


    It is only a 2+ minute watch and is very insightful. You are right nibbler – when you find the negative side of people, how do we reconcile the good (or even great) that they did? The more I study history, I keep finding that many wonderful people also have flaws.

    I remember hearing the interview about the book that came out earlier this year about Mormons and the Nazi’s. I am sure most of you are aware of Helmuth Hubner – the Mormon youth in Germany that was put to death by the Nazi’s for subversion. But I heard of another man that on the night when Germany cracked down and started gathering all the Jews, this one member of the church hid 2 people in his car and drove them to another country for safety. It was at great risk that he did this. Why don’t we hear about him? Because he couldn’t keep his pants on. He had like 3 different marriages. I am not trying to minimize this, but to put it in another perspective – would I prefer a such a man to be somewhere to have saved my great grandparents, or would I have rather my great grandparents be murdered and the man to kept the law of chastity 100%? I am with the womanizer that when it came down to saving someone’s life was willing to risk his own.

    #302175
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Fabulous commentary on the relationship between character and reputation. You can draw a parallel between Bill Cosby and Joseph Smith. do you throw out his brilliance as a founder of a religion because of his character flaws (such as encounters with teenagers?). In this commentary, the answer seems to be yes to the public.

    What came to my mind was that God sees the full landscape of what Bill Cosby did in his life — the serial rapes, but also the good he did. I think God will see the many ways I have tried to serve humanity myself and will weigh that against my less activity in the church (if that even matters to him) on judgment day. Time will tell — I am glad that I believe God is likely more merciful regarding character flaws than the public eye is.

    #302176
    Anonymous
    Guest

    If you are talking about only character & reputation, than you can draw a very rough comparison.

    The acts that Bill Cosby is accused of are despicable.

    I can’t draw the same comparisons with Joseph Smith. I understand what rape is. It is more than a flawed character. It is criminal. Because I don’t like or understand what JS was doing with plural marriage, etc, does that mean he had a flawed character? For some, I’m sure they will answer yes.

    #302177
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Thanks for adding a synopsis for the video. I wanted to do that myself but I was posting from a phone (slow) with no spell check (flying without a net).

    #302178
    Anonymous
    Guest

    At the very end, Phillips says:

    Quote:

    “The Cosby legacy will be determined by the character Bill Cosby demonstrates now, in this moment.”

    But, obviously, if this were all coming out after Cosby’s death, it would fall to others to preserve his legacy. What do people who are concerned about Joseph Smith’s legacy need to do now?

    #302179
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Ann wrote:

    But, obviously, if this were all coming out after Cosby’s death, it would fall to others to preserve his legacy. What do people who are concerned about Joseph Smith’s legacy need to do now?

    Culturally we like to tie everything together; if the BoM is true, JS was a prophet, if JS was a prophet the church is true. In some ways the church has become an extension of Joseph Smith.

    Making the substitution:

    Quote:

    The church’s legacy will be determined by the character the church demonstrates now, in this moment.

    History is just that, history. The flaws are out there, the strengths are out there. Do I let the failings of people in the past color my views on the present? Do I do the math to determine whether the benefits of what they did outweighed the negatives? Do I try to ignore the past and only look at the here and now?

    Phillips’ parting comment is also a call to action. He’s calling on people to reevaluate Cosby based on what he does going forward but he’s also calling on Bill Cosby to show character. Relating that back to the church, maybe we can wipe the slate clean and reevaluate based on what the church does going forward. By their fruits ye shall know them, the fruits of history are no longer edible. What’s on the tree today? What grafts can be done to make tomorrow’s fruit better?

    #302180
    Anonymous
    Guest

    nibbler wrote:

    Ann wrote:

    Phillips’ parting comment is also a call to action. He’s calling on people to reevaluate Cosby based on what he does going forward but he’s also calling on Bill Cosby to show character. Relating that back to the church, maybe we can wipe the slate clean and reevaluate based on what the church does going forward. By their fruits ye shall know them, the fruits of history are no longer edible. What’s on the tree today? What grafts can be done to make tomorrow’s fruit better?


    I like this comment. I think that is very true. I really would like to see more “character” come from the church now. I am a bit discouraged that I am hearing there are those that are more progressive in the church, and a counterbalance of those that want to “keep Mormonism weird.” And by that I mean that there are many that still are polygamists and it sounds like if the church were to really say, “Polygamy was a mistake” then a portion of the membership would officially break off into more fundamentalist Mormon sects. I am starting to wonder if in my life there will be any significant change. Incremental change I hope, but I am starting to doubt anything significant in the next 15-20 years.

    #302181
    Anonymous
    Guest

    LookingHard wrote:

    I really would like to see more “character” come from the church now.

    Me, too.

    I just listened to a BYU speech by Steven Harper from June’s BYU Women’s Conference. I think it was called “Seekers Wanted.” I thought, Great, He’s a young guy who’ll really speak to problems caused by historical warts. He had a graphic with “Facts” that lead to wrong “Assumptions.” I’m going to pick the one nearest and dearest to my heart – polygamy – to express my disappointment. The “fact” was: “Joseph Smith was sealed to many women.” The (erroneous, he’s saying) “assumption” was: “Joseph Smith exercised unrighteous dominion over women.”

    Leaving aside the question of what conclusions to draw from the facts, the apparent inability of Steven Harper as proxy for the church to clearly and honestly summarize plural marriage in a sentence or two leaves me feeling quite pessimistic. “Joseph Smith was sealed to many women.” You’re kidding me, right? That’s your “fact?”

    The church writes essays in which the pain and heartbreak of polygamy is whittled down to “misunderstandings.” And the well-documented distress of Emma Smith is a reaction to lots of…. uh, “sealings?” Why is the church surprised that so many people aren’t in the mood to do the math Nibbler is talking about?

    I want to stay in the church. I feel like begging our leaders to get real about this issue. Please show the respect I assume they have for women by cutting the euphemistic, attention-shifting language used to describe polygamy. I think it’s the only way to preserve Joseph Smith’s legacy. Polygamy is part of the historical record, but it needs to be just that – history, not a doctrine so offensive that modern people are repelled. Detach it so Joseph Smith’s legacy can stay aloft.

    I have no real legacy in my family if my kids aren’t free to honestly name my shortcomings and mistakes. I think it will only heighten their appreciation for the good I did.

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