Home Page › Forums › History and Doctrine Discussions › Richard Bushman’s Recent AMA by Hawkgrrl
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July 21, 2015 at 7:20 pm #210038
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GuestJuly 21, 2015 at 8:07 pm #302274Anonymous
GuestExcellent. Thanks Hawkgrrl & mom3 July 21, 2015 at 9:29 pm #302275Anonymous
GuestLove this part: Quote:Should not Mormons have a connection with God that goes beyond the Church? Do we worship God or do we worship Mormonism? What should we teach our people to protect them from this vulnerability?
PROTIP 1: Avoid Mormonolatry.Stay spiritually anchored in Christ, not just Mormonism. Don’t let anti-Mormonism become a replacement religion. Isn’t that a key element in staying LDS through changes? Accept what mormonism is…not what we wanted it to be. Stretch our minds beyond what we were taught growing up, and still find the value in it. Accept we are still developing our understanding of God, and that is powerful.
July 22, 2015 at 3:10 am #302276Anonymous
GuestHeber13 wrote:Love this part:
Quote:Should not Mormons have a connection with God that goes beyond the Church? Do we worship God or do we worship Mormonism? What should we teach our people to protect them from this vulnerability?
PROTIP 1: Avoid Mormonolatry.Stay spiritually anchored in Christ, not just Mormonism. Don’t let anti-Mormonism become a replacement religion. Isn’t that a key element in staying LDS through changes? Accept what mormonism is…not what we wanted it to be. Stretch our minds beyond what we were taught growing up, and still find the value in it. Accept we are still developing our understanding of God, and that is powerful.
I have come to this conclusion. I am sorry that many Mormons that leave move all the way to atheists. I am not trying to belittle anyone or a belief, it is that I still find much comfort in the thought of a loving God. As I have thought about this I can imagine believing there is no God and the thought really bothers me. I may be ignoring facts, but I am willing to give myself some slack – even if it is an emotional/spiritual teddy bear.July 23, 2015 at 8:14 am #302277Anonymous
GuestQuote:We are in a period of transition with regard to our history. The narrative is in the process of reconstruction. Right now that means there is the standard, comforting story, and then a series of controversies. Teachers are wondering how many of the surprises can be brought up in Sunday School without disrupting the spiritual purposes of the class. In time I think this problem will go away. All the controversial questions will be absorbed into the standard narrative and we won’t have a sense of two tracks.
I would love to know more about the curriculum-writing process and how the reconstruction is going. Sometimes I’m not very optimistic about it all, so I wonder what he knows.July 23, 2015 at 3:46 pm #302278Anonymous
GuestAnn wrote:Quote:We are in a period of transition with regard to our history. The narrative is in the process of reconstruction. Right now that means there is the standard, comforting story, and then a series of controversies. Teachers are wondering how many of the surprises can be brought up in Sunday School without disrupting the spiritual purposes of the class. In time I think this problem will go away. All the controversial questions will be absorbed into the standard narrative and we won’t have a sense of two tracks.
I would love to know more about the curriculum-writing process and how the reconstruction is going. Sometimes I’m not very optimistic about it all, so I wonder what he knows.
It makes me think that he believes the church leaders and the groups writing materials are pretty aware of the problems from past manuals and that updates or “fixes” are needed. They just aren’t sure how to do it. I bet for a long time, when things were brought up, church leaders just weren’t aware if they were valid points of discrepancies or not, coming from unvalidated sources. But now…they pretty much know there is an appetite in today’s society for more accurate teachings. The slower they move, the more difficult they make it for themselves with the change.Do they care more about the bunches of people that are being put in faith crisis by not having good info? Or do they care more about pacifying the majority with “All is well in Zion”?
The issues are known. It is now a choice on what to do about it that they are dealing with. That’s what I hear Bushman saying.
July 24, 2015 at 3:12 am #302279Anonymous
GuestI suspect the fixes that are needed will have an easier time getting enacted with BKP’s passing. July 24, 2015 at 11:21 am #302280Anonymous
Guesthawkgrrrl wrote:I suspect the fixes that are needed will have an easier time getting enacted with BKP’s passing.
I hove some hope that is the case. But working in a big corporation myself – change comes really slow. I would have to think within many of the levels of the church corporation there are BKP-ites that will resist to certain levels changes that he was against.July 24, 2015 at 4:54 pm #302281Anonymous
Guesthawkgrrrl wrote:I suspect the fixes that are needed will have an easier time getting enacted with BKP’s passing.
And also the passage of time.As people see fears go away, and it isn’t the end of civilization, nobody is being turned to pillars of salt, nothing really is happening….then…meh…fixes can safely be put in place.
July 24, 2015 at 8:38 pm #302282Anonymous
GuestDon’t forget how the revelation about Blacks & the Priesthood occurred. The controversy happened over many years.
When the revelation came, the change was immediate.
The reactions of the membership in my ward was interesting to observe.
Most members welcomed the change. (It was an historic event to witness.)
A few questioned it.
Some had a FC over it.
A side note: the person who questioned it the most became our next Bishop.
July 24, 2015 at 9:34 pm #302283Anonymous
GuestAbsolutely fantastic!!!! This is not an apologistic argument, it is not a skeptical one, it defies classification!. Here is one quote: Quote:Question: There are many people with a fraction of your knowledge of church history that throw up their hands and give up. They say looking any further into the truthfulness is futile, because what they’ve come to know negates the possibility of truth. What fundamental difference is there in those who let the knowledge negate their faith and those who let knowledge sustain it?
Answer: It is hard to explain. People on each side dream up explanations of the other. The believers say you must be sinning; the unbelievers say you are biased by your background and emotional factors. I don’t know the actual answer. I have come recently to ask people how they feel about Christ. If they still value him, I think they will be okay. But many have given up on Christ and even on God. Their problem in other words is a Christian, not just a Mormon, problem. I don’t know why that happens. People are left without a spiritual anchor of any kind. My hope is that wherever they land they will have the strength to reconstruct a belief they can live by. I don’t like it when anti-Mormonism becomes their religion. That is not a good way to live.
July 25, 2015 at 2:05 pm #302284Anonymous
GuestQuote:But many have given up on Christ and even on God. Their problem in other words is a Christian, not just a Mormon, problem. I don’t know why that happens. People are left without a spiritual anchor of any kind.
I’m not sure where the confusion comes from. Some people stop deconstructing at the borders of Mormonism, questioning Christianity and religion in general is still off limits. Other people continue on to deconstruct everything. There’s just as much material, if not more, to deconstruct with respect to Christianity, Abrahamic religions, Zoroastrianism, etc.
We see this same sort of thing play out (more dramatically) on every TV show ever filmed. You lied to me about your evil twin cousin wrecking the Jetta? Was the whole story a lie? Do you even have an evil twin cousin?
Humans like to get at the truth of the matter, it’s our security blanket. When we find a flaw in perceived perfection we want to get to the bottom of things so we can redefine our concept of perfection. We think that the surer foundation provides the answer to the discomfort that resulted from discovering the flaw.
I haven’t given up on Christ and god (I’ve redefined them) but I understand why some people do… and that’s a completely valid position from which to anchor oneself spiritually.
Quote:My hope is that wherever they land they will have the strength to reconstruct a belief they can live by. I don’t like it when anti-Mormonism becomes their religion. That is not a good way to live.
I agree with this 100%.
July 25, 2015 at 3:36 pm #302285Anonymous
Guestnibbler wrote:Quote:I haven’t given up on Christ and god (I’ve redefined them) but I understand why some people do… and that’s a completely valid position from which to anchor oneself spiritually.
Quote:My hope is that wherever they land they will have the strength to reconstruct a belief they can live by. I don’t like it when anti-Mormonism becomes their religion. That is not a good way to live.
I agree with this 100%.
I am where Nibbler is at. I didn’t lose my faith in Christ and God (but I do view them quite different and their role quite different). But now I absolutely frame it as a belief and hope, nothing even close to knowledge. -
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