Hope for "Gays"?

I don’t want this to sound like a cop out, but the plain and simple answer is we just don’t know.

I don’t want this to sound like a cop out, but the plain and simple answer is we just don’t know.

I think DJ has the real answer here. BUT… I think among many orthodox LDS members there’s a feeling that the atonement will ‘cure’ same sex attraction. I’ve heard several members make statements to that end. The idea is that the atonement fixes everything. For the record I don’t think they need to be fixed.

I don’t think it is a cop-out…but can you see the concern about hope missing? If the blanket statement is that the atonement will fix everything, and since this is everything, whatever happens will be worth it…then fine. But, I know for a fact that this “answer” is pretty lame for many LGBT folks. And, this opens up another FC issue: we have a prophet, and should we not be able to access, through him, what the hopeful answer is?

I’m of the opinion (this is one of many) that some issues are so political, so “hot”, so “uncomfortable and controversial” that to say anything about them may be a mistake. But, wasn’t this the case when JS took the stance that all churches were false in his day? We are left with 2 possibilities it seems: the prophet hasn’t asked, or the prophet has asked, and God hasn’t answered. I suppose there are others, but there appears to be a drought of information about this specific topic.

can you see the concern about hope missing?

Yes, absolutely I can. If one of my kids were gay I would tell them to do what makes them happy, including “stepping away” from the church until that time when they could have a fulfilling life both inside and outside of the church. I don’t think our doctrines offer much hope for gay people, but I hope someday it does.

I am right there also. I even have some small questions about one of my teenage sons and I have had a talk with him and told him very clearly that I would continue to love him to death even if he told me he was gay. He gave me a 😯 expression. Not sure if it was a clue or more him just thinking, “why is dad saying that to me?” or “That is interesting.”

The Law of Chastity is different for LGBT. A heterosexual is allowed to hold hands, to date, to kiss. Hugging is okay. None of those activities are condoned for LGBT members. LGBT are left with a very lonely existence if they choose to stay within the church. Basic human touch is important. It matters. An LGBT member isn’t going to be allowed to touch anyone. As a gay man, he cannot hug other men. They are not going to be allowed to hug children without accusations of pediphilia. A simple hug too often takes on different connotations of depravity and sin when the hugger is LGBT. That double standard isn’t fair.

The original question was essentially “What does God think?” We don’t know. I like to think that God loves all of his children, and accepts them each in the manner in which they were created. I like to think heaven has room for such a one as me .. With all my anger and bitterness about religion. If God can find room for me, surely, there is room for people who are dealing with the life struggles and desires that God gave them.

I see God as more inclusive and more loving of his children than we often give him credit for.

Maybe, God cares more about us taking responsibility for our actions, and making sure no one is harmed by our choices, than he cares about fornication, polygamy, and self-gratification.

I’m of the opinion (this is one of many) that some issues are so political, so “hot”, so “uncomfortable and controversial” that to say anything about them may be a mistake. But, wasn’t this the case when JS took the stance that all churches were false in his day? We are left with 2 possibilities it seems: the prophet hasn’t asked, or the prophet has asked, and God hasn’t answered. I suppose there are others, but there appears to be a drought of information about this specific topic.

There’s an added dimension. The prophet has asked, god did answer, and people either liked or didn’t like the answer. I know quite a few people that fall into that category and for all I know they could be correct.

Often when we talk about the gospel we present it as a plan of deferred happiness. These days I’m more of the opinion that the gospel isn’t a plan where we’ll finally be happy once all of the world’s injustices have been meticulously addressed in some afterlife. If we aren’t happy now, why would we all of a sudden be happy after we’re dead? The happiness of the gospel belongs to the living. So in considering what hope there is, the afterlife doesn’t factor in, at least for me. People with SSA can now get married in 18 countries. That’s a good step forward. It gives me hope that we can continue to take those kinds of steps all over the world. It will take time and effort, but that’s why they call it hope.

If we aren’t happy now, why would we all of a sudden be happy after we’re dead? The happiness of the gospel belongs to the living. So in considering what hope there is the afterlife doesn’t factor in, at least for me.

Nibbler, this brings up a whole new dimension for me, one which I have spent some time thinking about. This idea of “deferred happiness” is frustrating, because in many situations, it can interfere with human feelings and the argument between what is a need and a want. It especially becomes frustrating when we have no idea what happens in the next life (if anything at all) other than some ethereal “it will be worth it.”

Taking the LGBT issue into account, for example, Many feel it is unfair that they be born with the SSA feelings they have, just to be told they can’t express those feelings. This creates a conflict inside about what they feel they need, and what they can’t have, apparently for ever if they are “obedient”. What a horrible choice! It makes total sense to me why such large numbers of LGBT people leave the church for ever…

Is the hope for Gays that “it will be worth it” to live the LOC,…and that is all they have to rely on? I’m sorry, but for me, that wouldn’t be enough. That is tooooooo little.

I have been reading a book that was given to me for Christmas, very pro-LDS, titled “What Happened to the Cross? Distinctive LDS Teachings” by Robert L. Millet professor of ancient scripture and former dean of Religious Education at BYU. There is one passage that I feel has direct bearing on this thread.

Author Robert L. Millet wrote:

“While serving as a priesthood leader many years ago, I had occasion to work with a young man who was struggling with same sex attraction. He had violated his temple covenants but sincerely wanted to change. Church disciplinary measures were taken, and he and I began to work together toward change. He spoke often of how difficult it was for him to be active in the Church, to attend all the activities, and in general to be a typical Latter-day Saint when he felt so very atypical. He committed himself to avoid inappropriate sexual activity but wrestled with his same-sex attraction. One day he asked me, “If I do the things you have asked me to do- go to Church, read the scriptures, fast and pray, plead for divine help, receive priesthood blessings when necessary, and be chaste- can you assure me that the Lord will take away these desires, these attractions? Can you promise me they will go away?” It was a tough question.

As I recall, I said something like this; “I know the Lord can indeed change you, change your heart, change your orientation. I know that he can do that instantaneously if he chooses to do so. I know that the power of change is in Jesus Christ and that dramatic and rapid change can take place. I do not know, however, whether the Lord will change you right away. I do know this, however: If you do what you have been asked to do, and you do it regularly and consistently from now on, God will change you, either here or hereafter. You may be required to deal with these feelings until the day you die. But I can promise you two things- first, these feelings will eventually be transformed; and second, if God does not choose to bring about a major change in your nature in this life, he will strengthen and empower you to deal with the temptations you will face. You don’t need to face this on your own.”

He then shared some scriptures about those who “overcome by faith” D & C 76:53 and “withstand every temptation of the devil, with their faith on the Lord Jesus Christ” Alma 37:33.

What does this passage mean to you? By appearing in a book subtitled Distinctive LDS Teachings, how does this represent a departure from (or a continuance of) Gay/LDS teachings of the past? What ever happened to this young man from “many years ago?”