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After you disengage with the textbook Mormon path, and you have children at home, the issue of their future comes to the fore. For me, I have a son who has declared his independence of church at a very young age. He wants nothing to do with the priesthood. Given parents’ disengagement with the gospel, the question then becomes — what are your hopes for your children? What does your at-home training (if any) look like? What constitutes “success” in our parenting or in the outcomes for your children? I remember talking to a taxi cab driver and he was very proud of his sons as both “had jobs and had never been to jail”. That was his standard of success. And that may have been an improvement over the previous generation for all I know — and a worthy goal for his family at that time given his own upbringing. I try not to judge. But I’m interesting in knowing what others’ definition of success is for their children and the outcome of the family experience they provide at home. I struggle with my kids and the church as they are all fairly TBM’s. All of my kids that are old enough have served missions have done so (not just the boys). I have told my oldest that I had a faith crisis, but I don’t thinks he fully gets what that means. My one son that is just about to return from his mission did have some issues before he left that I leveled with him how imperfect leaders can be and that actually helped him deal with some issues. If I had to place a bet, he is my most likely to separate him from the church. He is fiercely independent.
But so far we are moving forward much like a TBM family, with a dad that occasionally chimes in with “did you know JS have a peepstone that he did magic with?”
I think it is pretty hard to know how successful you’ve been as a parent until the story is over…and I don’t know when that is. My son wanted nothing to do with the church. I was told things by bishops and others about the scary outcome for future generations that would be impacted by my ability or inability to keep my son in the church.
Whatev.
I love my son. He knows it.
Perhaps that is my measure. If they know they are loved, I’ve done something. They will make choices in their lives and figure it out as they go. But I love them.
Interestingly…one day…my son came home and said…I want to go on a mission. I need to start getting ready now.
That is showing his character and choices. That isn’t my parenting. I don’t take credit for that. And I know I would love him no less if he never said those words.
In or out of the church is not relevant to me. I walk that talk when I show my kids that. They know what is relevant to me…being a good human being. And they’ve heard me tell them the church doesn’t determine that they do, but the church will help with that if they want it to.
SilentDawning wrote:what are your hopes for your children?
This is a difficult question for me because my hopes are different from my wife’s hopes. I’m more culturally mormon and she’s more TBM. I hope that my children are happy and make church-related decisions based on all available information. I am very open with my kids but the number of TBM influencers far outweigh my lone voice so far.
SilentDawning wrote:What does your at-home training (if any) look like?
My in-home training consists of Family Home Evening and dinner time discussions about doctrine and history. My wife gives her opinions and I share mine and sometimes they are tense. I go on a rotating weekly “date” with one child and sometimes it comes up during that time, and I’ll state bluntly that they can make whatever choice they feel is right and that I don’t believe such and such doctrine. So far they seem to be headed down the TBM path, which is ok if that’s what they want.
SilentDawning wrote:What constitutes “success” in our parenting or in the outcomes for your children?
For me it’s that my kids are happily married, are healthy, and have a job that meets their financial needs. I don’t think I’d care much if a child broke away from the church completely – but otherwise lived a positive, productive life – but my wife’s heart would be broken.Humans are that they might have joy. Everyone needs someone to understand and love them.
Agency is perhaps THE central aspect of our existence, according to our theology.
Contributing to society in a productive way, when possible, is important.
That is what I want and try to provide for my children: joy, understanding, love and agency, combined with support to be productive in a meaningful way.
Finally, I think helping them be comfortable with their own uniqueness has helped so far. I know it was critical for me, and I am thankful my parents gave me that.
I hope my kids can be all of that within the LDS Church.
Call me pessimistic but I see sorrow in my children’s future. I know that there will be break-ups, rejection, failure, disappointment, and death. I hope to give my kids a supportive and soft place to regroup when those things happen.
I also hope that they marry a person that is kind and treats them well.
I think you’re right, Roy…along with all the opposites of all those. Hopefully they will be ready for it all.
I grew up thinking my parents would only love me IF I did certain things .. And there was a long list of qualifying actions needed on my part. As a parent, I have focused on the opposite. My children know their parents love them unconditionally. That nothing they do can change that. They can make decisions that disappoint or embarrass us .. But those decision don’t change the unconditional love.
My daughters also know that we would like them to remain chaste until marriage, but if they decide differently, they have our full permission to pursue appropriate contraception. We believe in their abilities to make wise and careful decisions. So far, our children have been VERY straight arrows. We are aware that could change at any time — and all we can do is continue to love them.
Funny to us that both kids have been as conservative if not more conservative than their parents. We didn’t expect that.
Someone told me, “Your job is to raise happy, successful adults. But you don’t get to decide what is happy and successful.” At first I thought that was garbage advice, but I’m beginning to get it…I think. Ann: Yes! You said it well! I have no right to expect anything for my children. My job is to love them unconditionally, give them roots, and let them figure out their own adulthood.
Older DD is active. She married in the temple, but was so put off by the endowment ceremony that she hasn’t been back for another session. She is all about Women’s Rights.
Younger DD is 15, living away from home at a special program for smartie-pant kids to start college early. She is attending church on her own, and is just finding out how to enroll in institute. Not TBM, but very devout. She strongly disagrees with the church’s stance on homosexuality.
Ann wrote:Someone told me, “Your job is to raise happy, successful adults. But you don’t get to decide what is happy and successful.” At first I thought that was garbage advice, but I’m beginning to get it…I think.
Funny, I was just about to post that my hopes for my children are that they become happy and successful adults! I think I’m beginning to get it, too, having only one child that can be considered fully adult. (I don’t consider missionaries adults, and the way the rulebook is written neither does the church.) Truly, though, I want them to find their own joys and happiness and their own successes, whether they agree with mine or not.
Nice to see no one is saying “became an Eagle Scout/YW Medallion holder, served a mission, married in the temple and is now serving in a high profile church leadership calling”. With my son — he is a tougher case. I have a plan to teach him about a lot of things that could prevent problems with him in the future….some of these things we already do. I am getting up the commitment to implement a program, with my wife’s buy-in, that involves.
Health
1. How to look after one’s health through diet, avoiding smoking and alcohol and drugs.
2. The importance and habit of exercise.
3. Ongoing training about how to manage his own health challenges
4. Basic hygeine (teeth, bathing, regular visits to the dentist)
Wealth
1. How to establish, track and stick to a budget.
2. The relationship between a person’s career path and their economic success.
3. How to negotiate with business people.
4. How to save and invest
5. Teaching wealth as a result of work and passive investments.
6. How to use a credit card, write checks, make bank deposits and withdrawals.
7. How to learn independently from books, videos and other people.
8. How to persist in the face of academic obstacles.
9. Identification of his unique skills, strengths, and passions.
Personal Safety
1. Understanding the law regarding the age of consent, vandalism, fraud, theft, inadvertent and intentional bodily injury to others, and the legal risks and responsibilities of being a parent (to avoid being investigated by child protective agencies and keeping other children safe) and other laws that people sometimes don’t know about until it happens to them.
2. Internet safety
3. Exercising caution and avoiding situations where adults and others can cause harm.
4. How to interact with chemicals, equipment and the use of safety equipment like gloves, eye and face protection, safe disposal of chemicals, and reading the label before using something.
5. How to recognize and respond to bullying,
Life Skills
1. How to do simple automobile maintenance (change oil, wiper blades, tires).
2. How to cook and clean up after making a variety of healthy meals.
3. Basic cleanliness regarding keeping things in order.
4. Basic lawn maintenance
5. How to make your own doctor appointments.
6. Care and feeding of animals.
7. Basic home repair such as use of woodworking tools (screwdrivers, hammers, drills, saws, how to change lightbulbs, painting, door handles).
Character
1. Character training about honesty, kindness, responsibility, self-control.
2. The importance of regular service to others.
3. Fidelity in marriage.
4. What it means to be a “good citizen”.
5. Filling the mind with good thoughts and thinking positively.
6. How to express yourself forcefully without swearing; clean speech.
Relationships
1. If he’s interested, how to be a leader and make vision reality through the wise use of power.
2. The role(s) of partners in a marriage or long-term relationships (I hope it’s marriage).
3. Drivers of a happy marriage taken from the approach Willard Harley Junior provides in His Needs/Her Needs. How to recognize the key drivers before marriage (I have a formula now that might help some people).
4. How to treat a girl and how to interact with her parents (he clearly likes girls although he doesn’t have relationships yet).
5. Dating age (had to learn that one on the fly when my daughter experienced it).
6. How to recognize and respond to peer pressure.
7. The power of being yourself.
8. The importance of being kind rather than being a bully, and standing up for people who are bullied by others.
Spirituality
1. Belief in God.
2. The role of prayer and spiritual feelings in decision-making.
3. Sources of self-esteem and how to preserve self-esteem when it is threatened
Can you think of anything else you might add to the list? I want to be practical here. Anything you would take off?
My goal is to at least graduate him from our home knowing I did everything I could to help get the skills he needs to survive on his own and live a productive life. While the list does contain assumptions about what a good life is, at some point, I believe you have the right and obligation to share what you are as a person with your children. It’s hard to separate who you are from what you teach your children about what is important in this life. Comments?
It’s a good list. I would just keep it all in pencil…and let your son fill in the list. But kids do need direction…that’s why you’re the good dad to share your beliefs and lessons learned.
Just be prepared for him to have a very different experience than you did, and many things on your list will not apply to his list. Be open to that.
I think helping them build the list is more important than giving them a list. The time spent talking about the list is more important than any item on the list.
And I mean that literally.
But, for practical purposes…your list is a good one. Eagle scout would never go on any of my lists. Wealth is low on my list. Able to sustain a living and have a career is good…wealth can make some things easier and some things harder so I’m neutral on that. Everything else is perfect.
I asked him what he would like to learn and he didn’t have any suggestions. But he said he would do stuff that would help him… I have taught my daughters how to install a dishwasher, garbage disposal, ceiling fan, light fixtures, how to replace a faucet or replace the pins and washers in a faucet. How to tile. How to install wall board, how to install trim. How to use air compressor tools. Quilting, sewing, knitting, crochet, sewing, cooking, canning, basic car maintenance. How to set a table. How to trouble shoot a car that won’t start — battery vs alternator vs ignition problem. How to take apart a washer and dryer. How to prepare for an interview. How to manage money. And .. The importance of a hand written thank you note.
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