Home Page › Forums › General Discussion › Slate: Sick missionaries denied medical care
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October 15, 2015 at 2:22 pm #210249
Anonymous
GuestJana Reiss isn’t a fan of this article, but I found that it irritated me far less than most of the things I’ve read on Slate. What do you think? I didn’t serve a mission, so I have no experience with this directly, but I’ve got kids who may want to serve missions someday. It definitely worries me, knowing that it’s the
mission president’s wifewho has no training and hundreds of missionaries to supervise, that decides if my sick kid sees a doctor or just prays his intestinal parasite away. Unfortunately like SO many things in the church it comes down to a case of leadership roulette. I couldn’t read the comments on Slate for some reason, but a lot of the comments on Flunking Sainthood said “if you are sick enough and your mission president’s wife won’t let you go to a doctor, go anyway.” It’s true that there is nothing
physicallypreventing an 18-year-old elder from seeing a doctor for his intestinal parasite despite being told not to. But it’s incredibly naive to pretend that our top-down leadership structure doesn’t fill that elder with shame and guilt for even considering it. I thought this paragraph was especially profound.
Quote:Mormons have no theological objection to medical care, including psychological treatment. The roadblock to proper health care for missionaries isn’t primarily about money, education, or belief. It’s about culture. A missionary culture that demands the subordination of personal health to the success of the mission will always put Mormons needlessly at risk.
Our culture can be dangerous to people’s testimonies, their mental health and their relationships with their families. It’s a little chilling to think it can also be dangerous to yourphysical health. October 15, 2015 at 3:15 pm #305116Anonymous
GuestI have personal experience with this. At one point in my mission I got bronchitis and ended up with a fever of 104 my companion asked what she should do and was told to give me some Tylenol and see if it went down. It did go down but at that high of temp I really should have been taken to the er. I was somewhat delerious and couldn’t make that decision. Eventually I did see a Dr but not until a few days later. I served here in the us with easy access to Healthcare btw. October 15, 2015 at 3:39 pm #305117Anonymous
GuestJoni is probably right that it’s leadership roulette. I know of some missions where missionary healthcare (both mental and physical) is taken seriously. I also know that some missions delegate healthcare decisions to a mission “nurse” who is often a sister missionary with some college nursing education – probably not adequate. On my mission one missionary had an MD equivalent from a non-US university and the mission nurse was had an RN and we felt in pretty good hands. However in some areas in very remote Central America where I served there was simply no access to
anyhealthcare for some Elders. Agree that in the USA there is no good excuse for missionaries to not get adequate healthcare. An 18 year old boy will not typically have the experience and self confidence to take themselves to an ER if their companion and/or mission president was telling them to sleep it off or take Tylenol – especially when blind obedience is the expectation.
October 15, 2015 at 4:32 pm #305118Anonymous
GuestTataniaAvalon wrote:Eventually I did see a Dr but not until a few days later. I served here in the us with easy access to Healthcare btw.
This is the part that seems odd to me; AFAIK, we don’t have a regular MD in the local ward, but we do have a dentist (who has done emergency dental work in the middle of the night for at least one missionary that I know of) and a couple of RNs, and it’s hard to imagine a ward of any size without any medical professional who would at least give a quick checkup for a missionary on request. At worst, the MP should check with the bishop and then the stake presidency to see if there’s anyone anywhere in the stake who could give a professional opinion.
October 15, 2015 at 4:46 pm #305119Anonymous
GuestI’m sure experiences are all over the map. I really think the church is trying very hard to improve, but there are so many moving parts to this. Our experience was good; our missionary’s needs were attended to. What a relief as a parent – to know that the MP had a good head on his shoulders and access to professionals. My friend with a son in Central America was completely in the dark, her son wasn’t treated, and has lingering problems four years later.
I know three couples serving as mission health workers, or whatever they call them, an M.D. in each couple. There seems to be a big push to get them in place to evaluate, triage, etc.
October 15, 2015 at 4:57 pm #305120Anonymous
GuestConsidering that missionaries are usually on their parents’ insurance, you almost wonder why the decision has to go through the mission president (or wife) at all. It seems like the parents should be a lot more involved, too. October 15, 2015 at 5:10 pm #305121Anonymous
GuestLocally, I have seen missionaries sent to see a LDS physical therapist for informal diagnoses, rather than have them go see an MD officially. This might be a local thing, but all missionaries appear to be sent to various members for care .. Even when the issue is really outside their specialty and competency. Sometimes, there is an oversized concern about the cost of health care. As parents, we would all take a sick child to the doctor. That same 19 year old in college still goes to the doctor. Put that kid on a mission, and suddenly everyone around that missionary is doing too much to avoid a medical cost. It is as if all missionaries are treated as indigent orphans. The reality is parents expect their missionary children to be cared for. They expect the mission leadership to take on a certain duality of roles as both ecclesiastical authority figures as well as a parental role. The majority of parents are not impoverished, local members are often willing to help with co-pays and deductibles, and the church can afford to help.
I have written before about my brother throwing up big amounts of blood while on his mission. He was able to see a doctor. He was diagnosed with multiple gastric ulcers. The doctor prescribed specific treatment. Rather than treatment, he was told by his mission president “to get on his bike and ride” and ” Go do the Lord’s work”. This is my brother who has left the church.
My SIL served stateside. He had full health insurance. He was in a bike accident and broke his collarbone. Mission president’s wife had an old retired LDS GP look at him. The doc was known have some dementia. No exam, just a pat on the back, and “I’m sure you will be fine son”. The collarbone was broken and displaced. SIL grew up as a military kid. Between military culture and LDS mission culture, he was focused on following orders and expecting the system and leaders to care for him. He feels that he was failed. Currently, his collarbone has a weird knot on it where the bones were not aligned as they healed. The healing process, without immobilization and having to ride a bike, was excruciating. He just endured .. Waiting for the system to work and meet his needs. He didn’t understand that his leaders came from a culture that expected individuals to speak up and complain if there was an unresolved problem. From his cultural background, you report the problem and wait for the chain of command.
When that same Mission President’s wife was called as a member of one of the General Auxiliary Boards, my SIL struggled with some feelings. He had felt so uncared during his time of need by that person, he finds it difficult to see her in a position of even higher authority. The problem wasn’t that she was uncaring, she sent him to an incompetent senile retired GP who didn’t know how to assess or diagnose the problem. She thought she had delegated appropriately and didn’t follow up. SIL brought up the problem, was sent to someone, and waited for the follow up. He would never have considered bringing the same issue up again to an authority figure. Culturally, there was a disconnect.
My BIL fell down stairs while on a mission. He was unconscious for two days before his companion decided to tell anyone. His companion was just trying to “handle it”. Once the mission president and his wife were aware, appropriate health care was sought out. When they couldn’t get it in country, my BIL was sent stateside for recovery. His healing never was complete, we have wondered if earlier intervention would’ve made a difference.
I assume the church has a formal process in place for handling medical issues. That process has not crossed over into the culture. Training and teaching needs to happen. When someone gives 18-24 months of volunteer service, their basic needs of medical access should be a given. From each missionary on up through the ranks to mission president, there needs to be a protocol that is followed that involves trained competent providers.
October 15, 2015 at 5:13 pm #305122Anonymous
GuestThis is a difficult issue for me. I had a few health problems on my mission that weren’t handled adequately. Random thoughts: 1) It all depends on the mission. Leadership roulette, we all understand that angle.
There’s also the question of access to healthcare. My experience was similar to Roadrunner’s. There were some areas that didn’t have any access to healthcare; more pointedly, we did service in the local hospitals on my mission and there was no way I was going to one of those hospitals for treatment. I remember cutting my head on a low hanging branch. Ordinarily it would have required stitches but I didn’t want to come out of the hospital with something worse that what I had going in. I let the cut heal on its own taking care in cleaning and dressing the wound. It did heal, I viewed it as a miraculous healing.
2) It all depends on the missionary. This wasn’t the case in the examples cited in the article but some people won’t go to a doctor for any reason. I have a problem with this now. I tough it out for a few more days to see if it will get better. A missionary might have this attitude and someone in the mission office 500 miles away might have this attitude. Let’s give it a little more time to see if it gets worse/better and go from there.
3) We do have a culture of absolute obedience to authority during missions. That’s probably the only way to get missionaries to obey the rules on top of rules in the mission handbook. Unfortunately that level of obedience translates poorly to placing all authority in someone else to make calls about our healthcare. Jumping the hurdle of saying “forget this, I’m going to the doctor” can be insurmountable, it can be defying the lord for some people.
4) Maybe another contributing factor is that the person in charge of healthcare in a mission (not always the mission president’s wife) doesn’t want missionaries coming to them with every little thing. Maybe a serious problem falls through the cracks during a season when every other missionary has come down with a cold. Most of the diagnosis are given over the phone, it’s difficult for one person to travel out to missionaries spread all over the area.
I also get the impression that there are some missions that are so focused on keeping that shoulder to the wheel that there may be a culture where they are afraid that being too cautious about illnesses might create some sort of loophole where missionaries start to use “sicknesses” to get out of doing work, as harsh as that sounds. Maybe a few fakers using excuses to take a day or two off makes the mission nurse a little more reluctant to step in. It’s a shame that often missions are at the opposite end of an unhealthy extreme with regard to work ethic.
5) I got really sick the last week of my mission. I lost about 10% of my weight. I tithed on gross.
I spent a week in bed, too dizzy to sit upright. No one from the office came out to visit me and I’m sure it looked like a convenient “trunky” illness to most. I really wish I knew what that one was. As luck would have it, the problem cleared up the morning before the day I went home. I’m sure everyone thought I was faking.
October 15, 2015 at 5:17 pm #305123Anonymous
GuestI can share my own experience in a mission in the old days (when we paid all our own expenses) and with my son in South America. I actually didn’t have any health issues while serving and I served in a country with socialized medicine so care was free and available. My companion did sprain his ankle, though, and we just went to the ER. We didn’t contact the zone leaders or district leader or office or anything, we just went. He was treated, all was well, and while we did eventually make the office aware (I think in the weekly letter) nothing was ever said about it.
My son serves in South America, but in a large city with a decent system. There are four missions in the city and they share a nurse and a doctor. My son has seen the doctor twice, once for an ingrown toenail and once when he was ill. He did have to get permission from the MP’s wife (they really need a title), however. It ended up being two different doctors because they had changed in the meantime. The toenail guy was a retired general practitioner and my son liked him. He did great, took care of the nail, and there were no further problems. The other guy is a retired general surgeon who specialized in colorectal surgery. My son didn’t like him, and he didn’t do much for him. At that point my son was working in the office and had some interaction with the president’s wife, so she knew he was sick and he’s not one to complain. He was terribly upset that he had to stay home one day when he was sick in senior high school because he had perfect attendance his entire school career since kindergarten. But my son said the doctor made him feel as though he was faking it or just trying to get out of work. I honestly don’t know what the doctor could have done, but he did nothing and told him to basically ride it out.
We also had a boy in our ward who served in one of the other missions in that city who had appendicitis needed to be hospitalized for surgery. He did see the mission doctor (the first one my son saw) and was referred. His parents were immediately informed and were told that if this turned out to be more than they were confident the in-country system could handle they would immediately transfer him to a US hospital at church expense. All went well, and he finished his mission without complications.
That said, I don’t doubt the accounts in the article and I don’t doubt that it’s an issue in some missions (leadership roulette). Were I a parent of one of those boys or girls you can bet that I’d be on the phone with that MP. (FWIW, my son’s MP encourages parents to contact him via email or Facebook with any questions or concerns, and he does respond promptly.)
October 15, 2015 at 8:24 pm #305124Anonymous
GuestOne point the Slate article touched on briefly is our mythos surrounding missionaries who die on their missions. This is fortunately rare but the cultural response to it is fairly predictable and if the Saints actually had saints, dying on your mission would definitely be a good first step towards canonization. It does lead to a weird double standard. Catch an intestinal parasite on your mission, lose 50 lbs and have to go home early? You must not have had enough faith. Get hit by a bus on your mission and die instantly? You must have had so much faith that God called you home early!
Thankfully we seem to have let go of the “with your shield or on it” idea that permeated Church culture in the 20th century. But there’s still an element of magical thinking that I think we should let go of.
October 15, 2015 at 8:43 pm #305125Anonymous
GuestMy advice to my children who left on missions: If you are ever sick, go the the doctor. You don’t need to check in with the mission office first. Here is a phone card. If you ever need to call me for any reason, just call. You don’t need to get permission to call your home. If you decide you don’t want to serve any more, I will still love you the same. Just call me and I’ll figure out how to get you home. Then we can let the mission president know. October 15, 2015 at 8:51 pm #305126Anonymous
Guestamateurparent wrote:Even when the issue is really outside their specialty and competency.
IMO, part of the reason for that is that pretty much anyone in any medical field should have enough basic competency to be able to say, with at least more certainty than a layman, whether a problem needs immediate care, (ER) care at convenience, (make an appointment) or a couple aspirin and a nap. They should also know if there’s any sort of first aid or other mitigating actions that should be taken until further care is received. Anyone who’s seen a malpractice claim from the scary side will also be very likely to err on the side of caution.
October 15, 2015 at 9:18 pm #305127Anonymous
GuestI think it is getting better over time and they do have some of the bad examples. Jana Riess gives a bit of pushback on the lack of balance in the article at
http://janariess.religionnews.com/2015/10/14/are-mormon-missionaries-being-denied-health-care-how-slate-dropped-the-ball/ ” class=”bbcode_url”> http://janariess.religionnews.com/2015/10/14/are-mormon-missionaries-being-denied-health-care-how-slate-dropped-the-ball/ October 15, 2015 at 9:21 pm #305128Anonymous
GuestI read the article and didn’t agree with every word. I disliked that the quote they used for masturbation came from a 1980 SWK talk (35 year old quote? really?). I also disliked the story about the missionary miraculously unscathed after being run over by a bus. I get that we have such stories floating around – but most of us are not fanatical in our approach to such things. I do however have some stories.
I served in Chile in 2000.
There was some literature about boiling water in my first area but that was so very impractical. You just end up doing what everyone else does as nobody wants to be the sore thumb or squeaky wheel.
First I experienced some burning during urination in my first month in country. My ZL recommended drinking more water. I took his advice and it seemed to do the trick. I only mention this because it represents a hierarchy. The ZL is a 20yr old kid. He gives some common sense “rule of thumb” advice and then asks you to wait and see. If it turns out to be something serious then time might have been lost going through the hierarchy (this was something reported in the article). I can understand how contracting parasites could go untreated for a significant period of time.
Next I was bitten by a large dog. the bite went through my pants and garments (not bite proof) and punctured my thigh. Luckily the dog was behind a fence and had just fit its head through the bars enough to reach me. We went home and called the wife of the MP. She told us to wash the wound with soap and water and take some ibuprofen for pain. She was so notorious for her prescription for ibuprofen that it was good naturedly mocked in a mission Christmas skit.
The final incident occurred when playing soccer on P-day. A sister missionary that was guarding me inadvertently kicked me in the groin. Later my scrotum became deep purple and blue. We did not report this to the mission office. I felt pain but not inconsistent with bruising in a sensitive area. It was some time later (many weeks) when I had sudden pain when taking a seat or other such activities. The bruising had gone away and so this pain was outside of my experience to explain and understand. I emailed my best friend’s RN Mom back in the states and she told me to get checked out.
I told the mission office the whole story and I was sent to a medical office. The Dr. ultimately told me that the pain was the result of scar tissue from the injury but that it should go away. I was fairly relieved because I was imagining something like testicular cancer. After the appointment I reported directly to the MP and I told him the moderately relieving news. I was surprised when he then chastened me. He told me that they had a pretty good feel for what issues were serious and needed medical attention and which were not but that I had taken such discernment and discretion out of their hands by contacting a medical professional against mission rules (no email allowed). How could they then deny me an appointment when I had already been advised by a medical professional.
I left the MP’s office still glad that it had been checked out. It was a major relief off of my mind. I also understood the position of the MP. He had several hundred missionaries in far flung areas to control largely by the force of his perceived authority and persuasion. I had gone outside of the approved channel and he didn’t like that.
I was told that my parents would be billed for the office visit but I do not know if that ever happened. I imagine that the church uses a combination of payment options depending on the circumstances. 1) bill the parents. This option makes sense if the parents can afford it. 2) bill the parent’s insurance. If the missionary is covered then why not? My parent’s coverage of me had lapsed since I was no longer a student. 3) the church can foot the bill. If the bill is so small that it is not worth the hassle or if the family is destitute then I imagine that the church would pay the bill.
October 16, 2015 at 12:14 pm #305129Anonymous
GuestI have had two kids serve missions. They each had health issues at some point. There was no pushback or hesitancy about either of them getting proper medical help. Yes, I am sure there are areas where things seen as “simple, little things” are ignored, but the article is completely wrong about a trend or general practice, imo and ime.
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