I’m very proud of myself right now (about dating, feedback?)

It actually sounds like the church is more important to her than the gospel – so many church members confuse the two.

I think you did fine. If you’re potentially going to spend a lifetime (or eternity depending on your point of view) with someone it’s very important that your values match.

We often hear in testimonies words like “I am so grateful for this gospel” or “I know this gospel is true.” I think I get what they’re saying, but “this gospel” is no different than the gospel that has always been on the earth from the time of Adam. LDS theology affirms that we believe the gospel to be the same, yesterday, today, and tomorrow – it is the everlasting gospel. All dispensations of time had “this gospel” (and I argue there was no “great apostasy” because the gospel was taught and lived throughout recorded history). So, in my opinion, what those who bear such a testimony are saying (and note we don’t hear GAs using those words) is “I am so grateful for this church” or “I know this church is true.” There’s nothing wrong with that, if that’s what they believe and have a testimony of – that’s great.

The Bible Dictionary (under “gospels”) describe the gospel as such:

The word gospel means “good news.” The good news is that Jesus Christ has made a perfect atonement for mankind that will redeem all mankind from the grave and reward each individual according to his or her works. This atonement was begun by His appointment in the premortal world but was worked out by Jesus during His mortal sojourn. Therefore, the records of His mortal life and the events pertaining to His ministry are called the Gospels; the four that are contained in our Bible are presented under the names of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.

I really think the gospel is that simple – and current GAs confirm that. It is that Jesus is the Christ. Rarely in association with the above “I knows” do we hear it in the context of Jesus being the Christ, although sometimes such testimonies are accompanied by testimonies of other things which include the atonement.

The gospel exists without the church and without any church. It is contained in the Bible (and the Book of Mormon if you believe that). However, the church does not necessarily exist without the gospel – it is dependent upon the gospel. The church (and other churches) also adds lots of stuff which are related to the gospel but not the gospel – like temple work.

So, from my point of view, if someone says they are committed to the gospel but their top priority/value/whatever is not teaching and believing that Jesus is the Christ, then their commitment is really not the gospel as much as it is something else – in this girl’s case, the church.

I like how you asked about the values and reacted with respect. Could you tell if she thought very deeply about things, like why the temple is #1? It might be interesting to hear why she thinks the way she does, or if those are answers she learned in YW classes and is her first response.

For example…temple by itself is not all that matters. In the temples, we receive the spirit of promise…but… no guarantees. Has she thought about what has to happen to make those promises come true? That seems like it would get to the heart of what relationships are all about.

DarkJedi: I agree completely. You phrased it beautifully.

Mczee wrote:

“She said “Just wondering. Also the gospel is really important to me in my life. Going on a mission isn’t a big deal breaker for me BUT the gospel is my life. I desire to have a husband who is stalwart and worthy but I won’t judge you for not going”. “

You two are chatting online and she is already talking about husbands??!!! Quick! Run away! IMO, you want someone who wants to be with YOU .. For always .. And oh gee .. I guess that means marriage is how we handle that legally. Hmmm .. Should we go to the temple? Yes or no? Now? Later? Never? But the focus is on you and the relationship.

The last thing you want is a girl who is looking for a “husband” and .. Hey .. Maybe you qualify. Male — Check. Temple — no check. That is how you pick options on a car, not a life time partner/relationship.

Go meet more/different girls.

Congratulations on making progress on dating! I think this was a great moment for you. I think it says a lot for your self-acceptance that you were able to reason to yourself, “We’re not a match” and not feel bad about it. It’s also great that you know your values and what you want in a relationship. :clap:

Full disclosure: I used to be a lot like the girl you’re talking about.

A few years ago I was seeing a guy who I knew hadn’t gone on a mission. I’d already had the beginnings of my faith crisis, but I wanted to get married in the temple. I wanted to overcome what I considered doubts. Even though I considered myself “not ready” for the temple at the time, I still figured it into my ultimate plans…well, it was a bit more complicated than that, but I’ll cut myself off here.

On a date I asked him if he’d served a mission—very warm, trying not to be judgmental in anyway. He said no. I asked why—he said he wasn’t ready to talk about that. I dropped the subject. We stopped seeing each other shortly after. Sometimes I wonder if he thought it had to do with the mission thing—that wasn’t the reason at all. For me, there wasn’t a romantic attraction. I told him this, but I digress.

You have to understand—young women in this church have it drilled into their heads that a temple marriage is absolutely essential for their eternal salvation and happiness, and this starts at a very young age. Really, they start the wedding dress and temple pictures really early for small girls in the church. Back in the day, pre-faith crisis, the purpose of dating to me was to find an eternal companion, and to me, the temple was the core piece of that, so my thought process was: why date someone that you can’t have that with? To me, it was a waste of time and I was playing with fire: I could fall in love with someone that couldn’t take me to the temple, and what then? That would mess with the narrative I’d bought into my whole life. I was very aware of this possibility and didn’t even want to flirt with the idea of starting a relationship with someone who wasn’t “temple worthy.” I’d also had relief society lessons about this topic pop up for years. The message? Temple Worthy is THE most important quality in a man right alongside “Worthy Priesthood Holder”—whatever that means. They even had us make lists of our “ideal eternal companion” with Temple Worthy at the top. Multiple times.

For a lot of LDS women, the temple is the castle in their own princess fairytale the story has served to them since before kindergarten. I know LDS women who are very liberal, don’t attend church, drink alcohol, etc., who still hold out that they “won’t settle for anything less than a temple marriage.” It’s that one thing some women can’t give up on, because it’s been drilled into them that this is the ONLY way to get their happpy ending.

I think, despite a lot of women wanting RM’s, there are a lot more LDS women nowadays who don’t see that as a pre-requisite. However, my experience is they’ll still want a “valid reason” for not serving a mission, as in to check your commitment level to the Church and prospects as someone who will marry her in the temple and be supportive of raising the children as TBM. While “not serving a mission” is not a requirement for temple marriage, I would say a lot of YSA Mormon women see it as a red flag for a man not valuing the church as much as she does, perhaps having some struggles with sins that she doesn’t want to have to cope with (pornography addiction is a big one that comes to mind—that’s very scary for a lot of YSA Mormon ladies). Basically, she probably wants to know what she’s getting into before moving forward, which is why she asked you why you didn’t go. I did the same thing. But don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying how she handled it was appropriate at all. And the “Stalwart” and “Worthy” thing was off-key.

Bright side is not all YSA Mormon women are like this, but I would say the majority of TBM will be. Yes, this is an assumption—but I stick by it. It’s my experience that TBM YSA women are like this.

But there are also girls out there that a frustrated by the same thing coming from the male side—who don’t want “Temple worthy” and “Honor my Priesthood” to be a qualification. Congrats on recognizing and setting your boundaries.

EDIT: she’s probably bringing this stuff up a lot because she likes you and is trying to get a sense of your church commitment before things progress.

Thank you for your perspective. I’ll try not to be overly critical and show more empathy. There is a lot of pain associated with LDS women in my life and how I’m viewed as a less than worthy person so sometimes I can be very critical.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don’t think you’ve been too critical here. You had a valid response. I think you handled the situation well and I think it’s awesome that you’ve recognized your boundaries and what you want from a partner. :thumbup:

It’s an unfortunate reality that many LDS women (and members in general) can be judgmental. I hope you know it’s a safe place to come and rant about it here, or share. You’re not less than worthy in my eye and there are plenty of women out there that will agree.

Good point. I’m probably jumping the gun and not inquiring the why.

I think I was intending to point out more that you could talk with her and see if she’ll see things more broadly or not. It’s not that she is right and you are wrong…it is you feeling confident you are just fine and finding out if she can be deep enough for you…or if she stays stuck in the shallow end looking for guys that fit a checklist of outward accomplishments…not realizing what she is missing.

My point was to see if you can feel comfortable around her and get her to think and question, not require you to back off of what you’ve learned in life up until now. Your viewpoint is just as valid as hers. Does she see it that way? Do you see it that way? Can you practice having those exchanges?

Even if she is not the one for you…perhaps she was placed in your path to give you some practice (haha…I can’t help but chuckle at how many different interpretations of “practice” there could be in the dating scenario!).

I’m ok with you questioning yourself…as long as you question others the same amount. Find balance.