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How did church go today for the rest of you? We had an interesting GD: the apostasy lesson. Everyone was avoiding the elephant in the room until the teacher set aside the manual and brought it up. It was like an opera. On the one side:
-you have to agree with the policy or you don’t have a testimony
-if you question the living prophets you are on the road to individual apostasy
-this isn’t a change at all. It’s always been the same.
-the proclamation is also revelation abs scripture if anything is
-it being leaked was malicious and took it out of context but the brethren of course have thought all this through. (I didn’t let this one slide pointing out that families caught in the middle waited and sweated it out for a week, A WEEK, waiting to know how it would affect them).
-S. Oscarson who is SIL to Pres Oscarson said she felt bad for the brethren and their anguish over this matter.
-we can’t baptize without consent anyway
-homework to read Lehi’s dream (ugh, really?)
The other voices:
-it’s not a policy. It’s open to change. Hopefully it will change.
-families are torn apart including some in our ward
-several people talked about their own gay friends and relatives
-one shared that his kids’ mother is gay married and he spent the whole week trying to figure out how to deal with this. His kids are already baptized but also he’s still torn up about whether they can really renounce or disavow their mother.
-Another older gentleman has an adult gay son in a relationship who is supportive of kids going to church so this newly puts his grandkids at risk.
-daughter of the teacher also was upset about the impact to gay kids. She got up and left.
Ended with the point that we are to love one another whether gay or straight. But my big takeaway as usual is that Mormons who aren’t affected are sure willing to pierce the hearts of those who are through lack of empathy.
I was the second one to say I disagree and the most vocal but once I said that it opened it up for others to share how it was directly affecting their families and how it was very harsh. I don’t have any gay children, but the youngest son of one of the families I baptized just completed his mission (finished faithfully) about 18 months ago, and then he entered into a same sex relationship. His mom supports him. So many of those directly impacted were told to marry straight people, and it didn’t work out, and now they have kids. Most of them are totally OK with supporting their kids in staying in the church.
I was assigned to speak in one of the branches today (our stake has 4 wards and 4 branches). I was hoping the matter wouldn’t come up and it didn’t. It was just another Sunday. That’s not to say some things weren’t interesting in their own ways – priesthood was close to being an episode of Doomsday Preppers (complete with talk of guns to protect your food). I overslept Sacrament Meeting. I’ve been out of town and the jet lag caught me. I did make the final 2 hours. It didn’t come up in class directly, but two people talked with me. One is a curmudgeonly old lady, who always gives her opinion and really doesn’t care what someone else thinks. She told me it is “the da*# stupidest thing we’ve ever done.” Then she went on to say, “what a person does in their house is their business.” I take it from those statements that she
lovesthe new policy. The other had already expressed her sorrow on the ward face book page. I stopped her after RS to ask how she was, she said she was better. Her friend is an LDS Chaplain and he explained that the brethren do make mistakes. I said, “Yeah, like the Race and Priesthood issue.” She sort of nodded. (I will call it my missionary moment for the day
I can’t say as I feel much better. I can flame throw a litany of why this “policy” is the biggest piece of garbage I’ve seen in a while. Like Hawkgrrl, I really am not directly affected. Yes I know 2 gay women, both are not members of my church, but I also know their work ethic, dedication, etc. I keep wondering what if they were members. Most of all, I’ve seen the ugly underbelly of life as a non-traditional member. It sucks sometimes. If being middle way is a strain, I can’t imagine being gay or connected to someone gay and experiencing this.
My funnest thought is that I get to spend time with my solid TBM family over Thanksgiving and the first weekend of December. Can we say “not excited.”
Sorry for thread jacking, back to Hawks question.
No mention in meetings. I asked a member of our SP after meetings if they had received further word or training about it. He said they hadn’t and that he believes implementation will vary based on local leadership. I didn’t ask him his opinion. It didn’t feel right, but I know I planted a seed by mentioning how many people I am helping online are hurt and grieving right now.
I got a text from a woman in GD (recently released YW pres): “I looked for you after Relief Society but must have missed you–I wanted to thank you for being willing to share your comments in Sunday School. I think willingness to ask questions is a form of true discipleship–you care enough to ask and figure it out for yourself. I appreciate your example. Just wanted to tell you.” The last two Sundays have not been fun. 11/8: We had stake conference where a new stake was formed. Elder Corbridge was the presiding authority. Both he and our stake president addressed the policy change directly. Their comments centered around the ever widening gulf between the world and the church and how the saints that are against the policy are all deceived. You can probably fill in all the gaps. Elder Corbridge had some other nice (but unrelated) comments but nice comments about Jesus become generic and easily forgotten once the bombs start falling.
11/15: During SM one speaker (the son of the SP) mentioned the policy in his talk. He’s a kid and he’s a chip off the block but his comments both contribute to and reveal the culture of my ward. Essentially he was embarrassed by the comments made on facebook by all the deceived members of the church and how comments on facebook would remain as a testament against the people making them during the final judgement.
Someone in the bishopric of my old ward posted a nice long blog article that was half “good riddance” and half “they were the tares anyway” in response to the mass resignation event.
Two of my friends have resigned in the last week. One a dear friend that is gay, a person that I’ve known ever since their family was investigating the church. The other a person I became friends with that always marched to the beat of their own drum. They didn’t come close to fitting the Mormon mold and I loved them for it.
These are the people that our leaders are writing off. They weren’t stalwart high priest group leaders or relief society president material so the attitude is *meh* who cares?
After this most recent SM was over I immediately went to someone in our ward that I had seen post things on FB in support of SSM. I didn’t know them but had to touch base, I asked them 1) If they had attended stake conference (no, they avoided it on purpose). 2) How they were able to deal with comments like the ones that were made during SM. They felt alone. I felt alone too and mentioned how I thought that the culture of our stake was intimidating enough to force people with different opinions to remain in silence and feel isolated or alone. I also mentioned that I thought that there were a lot more people in our ward/stake that were against the new policies than is evident.
The new policy is being used as a righteousness litmus test in our little corner of “Zion.”
Our bishop talked in PEC meeting to everyone about it. He said that he is sure people in our congregation are struggling with it. His take was 1) We need to encourage them to read and pray until they come around to align their beliefs with the prophet’s; 2) They should be setup an appointment one on one to talk to him about it so he can help them see clearer.
THen the bishop stood up in sacrament meeting and shared the same thoughts with a little more smoothed over message, but basically the same. He also talked about the scouting program and Investment in Leadership (money call) for scouting. He said the prophet has told us to donate generously, and that is good enough for him to do it.
He is a young bishop. Very bold. Very narrow-minded.
Here we go…I’m wondering if it is about to get interesting.
I teach a Sunday School class and asked everyone to sign the roll and write any questions that we can discuss in future meetings. Only had one question written down:
– Please talk about the recent Handbook Policy changes.
I’m taking them up on it…preparing a lesson next week on Signs of the Times in Gospel Principles manual lesson 42. I think it can open the door for a lesson on the Paris attacks, and the church’s policy.
Ya…it’s about to get interesting. I’ll let you know how it goes.
Nibbler, I get that feeling as well…it is a retrenchment from “faithful” members feeling goats and sheep are being separated…and because they feel confident the world and church is growing closer to the end of days and evil raising it’s head…they sometimes are not aware how unloving they sound. They seem to be writing people off and feeling ok with it…because it is others’ problem for not following the prophet.
I heard 3 times in church it mentioned with tears how beautiful the it was having children in Primary sing “Follow the Prophet”.
Just remember that GOAT stands for Greatest of All Time. We had a talk about porn. Counselor in bishopric said anyone can make appointment with bishop to discuss new policy. I’m thinking about sending an anonymous letter to bishop and stake president objecting to policy. (I may send to all bishops in the stake too, so they don’t know who sent letter.) I have a new bishop that I have tangled with in class prior to his becoming bishop about Ordain Women; he’s super conservative, follow the prophet, so I don’t have a lot of faith that he will be receptive to my complaining again.
MH…were you referring to the new policy on children of gay marriage…or is there a new policy on Porn? Thanks for stopping by MH – I miss your happy moniker over here. As to the GOATS – Yes. That is us. Go GOATS.
I was referring to Heber saying “”faithful” members feeling goats and sheep are being separated”. I’m sure the faithful view us as goats. And yes, I do think all mods here are the Greatest of All Time! Mom3, good to see you too. I am currently teaching 7 classes at 3 colleges, (in addition to my many freelance tv jobs) and I had to let something go. It’s still nice to pop in here once in a while, and I wish I didn’t have to sleep so I could keep up with stuff here.
Since I’m here, I’ll just ask for some prayers for my brother. He is being operated on tomorrow for a brain tumor. While it is considered benign, and relatively easy to cure (no radiation or chemo will be needed), he will likely have his auditory nerve cut and will lose all hearing in his left ear permanently. (I don’t think I call that benign, but yes at least it is not cancerous.) I’m pretty bummed about it, but he’s been a real trooper. That nerve controls balance as well, so he may need to learn to walk again. So that’s a bummer for me. We’re hoping he is out of the hospital before Thanksgiving.
I will gladly pray for your brother, likewise I will pray for you. It’s great to hear that your life is full of so many positive things. Thanks for the personal update. From one Goat to another – Happy Thanksgiving Season.
You and your brother are in my prayers, MH. Keep us posted. I’m sorry to hear about it. I went to see my brother last night. He didn’t open his eyes because he says it makes him dizzy. Hopefully that will subside a bit in a day or two, but his brain will need to learn how to balance again. Doctor completely removed his ear drum because it had a hole in it and could potentially leak spinal fluid. (“He won’t need it anymore” wasn’t what I wanted to hear.)
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