Hello from the other side… (I’m now an apostate)

We haven’t “met” before but it sounds like if I were in your situation I would do the same thing. Thanks for sharing. I hope you find the peace you seek.

4 years seems like such a short time but also an eternity.

I have long said that if one of my children came out as gay then that would be my last day participating in the LDS church. It would just change the value proposition of church participation too drastically for me. For me it would also be a show of solidarity with my child – that I choose them unequivocally. I do not think that I would resign but I understand that to be a personal choice. That was my feeling before this new policy came out.

I’ve said it before, but I’ll say it again. It’s so interesting to go from being on the inside looking out, to the outside looking in. When I was younger, I couldn’t even fathom where people were coming from when they called the church hateful, or called Mormons strange.

I find it funny that we have a disdain for the JW’s. Are we any more normal? We followed our prophet leader out to the uninhabited desert to have multiple wives. We have our own books of scripture seemingly invented from whole cloth and we even experimented with our own alphabet for a time. If I were unaffiliated and looking for God would Mormonism really be the basket where I would want to store all my eternal eggs?

That being said, I’ve also come to an understanding that the purpose of life is to create meaning. And who am I to tell others that I am right and they are wrong?

I remember a time when a good non-member friend of mine told me that he found it mildly offensive that my religion claims to be the only truth that should apply equally to the life of everyone. At the time I defended this – saying that if a truth does not apply to everyone then how could anyone have any confidence in it. That was almost 20 years ago. Now I understand that different people develop different narratives for their lives (heavily assisted by their environment and culture) and their story and meaning is just as valid and relevant as my own. However, I try to look charitably upon that teenage version of myself and all those that similarly need the comfort and stability of unchanging eternal truths.

Peace to you my brother. You are always welcome here.

I have long said that if one of my children came out as gay then that would be my last day participating in the LDS church. It would just change the value proposition of church participation too drastically for me. For me it would also be a show of solidarity with my child – that I choose them unequivocally. I do not think that I would resign but I understand that to be a personal choice. That was my feeling before this new policy came out.

I think it’s great that you have already decided to show solidarity like this to your hypothetical gay child. I have friends whose parents have left the church in support of their gay children, and I often find myself wishing that my parents would do the same. Here’s the interesting thing. Rather than having one gay child, my parents actually have two… which seems to complicate the matter considerably. When I came out, I was the first in my family to have ever done so (at least to my knowledge of our genealogy). Then, about half a year later my older brother followed my footsteps and came out to the family (no real surprise to me). However, since then it seems that my parents have found themselves in a compromising position.

Prior to my brother coming out, they seemed to hold the opinion that gay individuals in the church had a right to seek a suitable same-sex companion and develop a loving relationship. Well… that seemed to change a bit when my brother came out and decided to remain “dedicated” and “faithful” to the gospel at all costs… meaning he plans to remain single his entire life. Now my parents have two sons to look to as examples of how to navigate the way of the gay Mormon. :crazy:

They are still accepting of my partner and I (they helped us move, we spend holidays together, etc), but they seem to favor my brother since he’s decided to remain committed to the gospel. Personally, I just couldn’t do it. The duplicity I faced when I traveled that road was simply too much for me to handle. I recognized that I knew I would never be happy in this life as a single gay man. I have a deep need for companionship, and desire to share the wonders of life with another, even if that means leaving the faith of my fathers’ behind.

I have been telling my wife that bit about leaving the church if one of our kids came out as gay for a long time. She has been more TBM and has not been a supporter of SSM. Our discussions have been pretty good natured. I tell her that we can agree to disagree until it impacts one of our kids and then I will need to take a stand. It really surprised me after this new policy came out that she told me that under the aforementioned conditions she would leave the church with me. :wtf: I think this is an example of what Bill Reel said on his podcast that even middle of the road Mormons are having a hard time with the new policy.

Prior to my brother coming out, they seemed to hold the opinion that gay individuals in the church had a right to seek a suitable same-sex companion and develop a loving relationship. Well… that seemed to change a bit when my brother came out and decided to remain “dedicated” and “faithful” to the gospel at all costs… meaning he plans to remain single his entire life. Now my parents have two sons to look to as examples of how to navigate the way of the gay Mormon. They are still accepting of my partner and I (they helped us move, we spend holidays together, etc), but they seem to favor my brother since he’s decided to remain committed to the gospel. Personally, I just couldn’t do it. The duplicity I faced when I traveled that road was simply too much for me to handle. I recognized that I knew I would never be happy in this life as a single gay man. I have a deep need for companionship, and desire to share the wonders of life with another, even if that means leaving the faith of my fathers’ behind.

I have heard that the quality of life statistics that a celibate gay person faces are similar to the quality of life numbers of people suffering with Lupus. While the quality of life expectancy for homosexual people in a committed gay marriage are very similar the quality of life expectancy of the wider population. IOW, as much as your brother’s choices are having a less than desirable impact on you – he may be stuck in an even worse predicament. Please be as charitable and compassionate as possible in your dealings with your brother. I believe that he is going to need all the love and support that you can give him. My heart hurts for these situations.

As always, thanks for reaching out with your comments. I have a deep admiration for those of you in this forum and the safe space you’ve created here.

It really surprised me after this new policy came out that she told me that under the aforementioned conditions she would leave the church with me.

Roy, I think that’s great to hear. A gay child would be lucky to have you both as parents. So many children don’t have that type of support system. Shortly after the news broke about the policy, my mother sent me a message and we had a brief conversation over text. She wanted to let me know that she and my dad both loved me and didn’t really understand the new policy. I was surprised that they even acknowledged the policy to me, as they never made a peep when Utah passed the non-discrimination bill, or when gay marriage became legal in Utah (the first time nor the 2nd time with the Supreme Court’s ruling). It struck me then that this policy must have really upset them. During our conversation, I told my Mom that in many ways, I was glad that I wasn’t a practicing member because it would be really difficult for me to proudly declare that I was Mormon after a stunt like this. I sometimes feel a bit betrayed when things like this happen, and my parents still stay members. I know it’s not that easy, but I feel like remaining a member and not being vocal about your objections is similar to a sin of omission. This is exactly why I finally decided to resign my membership (and the reason why many others did as well). We don’t approve of what the Church is doing, and we don’t want to remain silent about it. :think:

I have heard that the quality of life statistics that a celibate gay person faces are similar to the quality of life numbers of people suffering with Lupus. While the quality of life expectancy for homosexual people in a committed gay marriage are very similar the quality of life expectancy of the wider population. IOW, as much as your brother’s choices are having a less than desirable impact on you – he may be stuck in an even worse predicament. Please be as charitable and compassionate as possible in your dealings with your brother. I believe that he is going to need all the love and support that you can give him. My heart hurts for these situations.

Regarding my brother, I echo your concerns. I have made friends with individuals who decided to follow a similar path when they were younger and are now haunted with loneliness because of their decision. I have vocalized these concerns with him, but he seems determined to stay.