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  • #210398
    Anonymous
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    Minyan Man wrote:

    I like the image too.

    The church has come up with it’s own recovery program. They should be commended for it. But why invent our own recovery program?

    I’ve never gone to the church program. I’ve heard good things about it. I’m sure it has something to do with how we utilize our buildings too.

    Just curious.

    I have often wondered the same thing. I have been to a few AA meetings, and actually really enjoyed it. In the AA meetings I’ve been to they serve coffee, share their sins, and drop the f-bomb to get a laugh if the mood gets too serious. I have not been to the church program either, and haven’t heard much about it, but I imagine that those are some of the differences between the programs. AA claims not to be a religion, but it still becomes a religion for some people. There is not much dogma or doctrine in AA which is one reason why I think I liked the meeting. They do read the AA book as if it were the bible and I almost sensed the same respect for their prophet like founder that we express for Joseph Smith.

    I imagine the church program blends LDS doctrine and scripture with the 12 steps. I’ve heard of other christian churches adapting the 12 steps program to incorporate the bible and Jesus more in the discussions. AA does not resolve specific questions about God, just that he exists and will help the addict recover if he acknowledges God and surrenders to his will.

    I have been thinking about alcoholics in the church. I don’t know of any. It seems that any alcoholics and addicts in the church are either less active or fully recovered. Where is the alcoholic in the trenches who wants to go to the bar and church? Is there a place for him? Would he feel welcome on Sunday? Would he even want to be there? There are people in AA who have been sober for decades, but there’s also a handful of people who relapsed yesterday and still go to meetings. I don’t see these types of people on Sunday.

    #307001
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Unknown said:

    Quote:

    In the AA meetings I’ve been to they serve coffee, share their sins, and drop the f-bomb to get a laugh if the mood gets too serious.

    As I think about it, this is probably the biggest reason why we don’t see AA meetings in our church. I do see it in Catholic & Protestant churches in

    our city. Recovery can be a very intense experience. It demands rigorous honesty. If people seem to be BSing, they can be called on it. It has happened to me early in my program.

    You said:

    Quote:

    They do read the AA book as if it were the bible and I almost sensed the same respect for their prophet like founder that we express for Joseph Smith.

    There are some that may use the BIG book as a bible & Dr Bob & Bill W (the founders) as we use JS. Overtime, the AA program leads some members to reconcile their new spiritual life with an organized religious faith. Not all but some.

    You asked:

    Quote:

    I have been thinking about alcoholics in the church. I don’t know of any. It seems that any alcoholics and addicts in the church are either less active or fully recovered. Where is the alcoholic in the trenches who wants to go to the bar and church? Is there a place for him? Would he feel welcome on Sunday? Would he even want to be there? There are people in AA who have been sober for decades, but there’s also a handful of people who relapsed yesterday and still go to meetings. I don’t see these types of people on Sunday.

    At the height of my FC, I started drinking. At the time I was in full activity in the church. I remember going to Ward Council meeting loaded. I drank for about 8yrs before going into treatment & AA. I was sober for 20 yrs before I felt comfortable about going back to church. I’ve been active again for the last 5 yrs (or so). AA is an inspired program. I believe that it saved my life, my sanity & my soul. In church, there are some that know I’m an Alcoholic. Most do not & I won’t say anything about it on a public level at church.

    It is said, that in the general population, every seventh person is affected by alcoholism (directly or indirectly). The next time you go to sacrament meeting,

    look at the members of your ward & count off by 7. The impact is significant. The LDS church is not immune from it’s effects. There are people in every ward & branch that are dealing with this disease. Some for a short period & others that have been sober for many years. In the short time that I’ve been back, I’ve found at least six people that use AA and/or the church program to stay sober. If you listen very closely, you can pick up on the “buzz words” that identify us.

    #307002
    Anonymous
    Guest

    I think we could do a better job as a church with community support groups. We don’t even have to staff the meetings, all we’d have to do is open our doors and provide a space for organized groups to meet. It’s a service. If we need incentive, doing this would also put the church’s name out there.

    Maybe it’s a regional thing? Like the church in the mission field doesn’t need to open their doors to support groups because other churches are already on top of things but if I were to go to the MorCor I’d see more community at large involvement in church buildings?

    Unknown wrote:

    I have been to a few AA meetings, and actually really enjoyed it. In the AA meetings I’ve been to they serve coffee, share their sins, and drop the f-bomb to get a laugh if the mood gets too serious.

    I imagine recovery gets messy. I haven’t been to one of our addiction recovery meetings but for whatever reason I assume it to be a fairly sterile, “lab coat” environment, sort of like a SS lesson. I’m guessing no one ever drops an f-bomb and that the utmost serious mood is the goal (basing that solely on my experiences in every other church meeting I’ve attended all my life). I hope we create space for real life to occur in our recovery meetings.

    Unknown wrote:

    There is not much dogma or doctrine in AA which is one reason why I think I liked the meeting.

    I imagine the church program blends LDS doctrine and scripture with the 12 steps. I’ve heard of other christian churches adapting the 12 steps program to incorporate the bible and Jesus more in the discussions. AA does not resolve specific questions about God, just that he exists and will help the addict recover if he acknowledges God and surrenders to his will.

    It makes me wonder whether involving someone’s religion/deity is the big contributing factor or whether social interaction with people in similar situations is the big contributing factor. I hope someone helps me out here but I believe the church’s program is sort of like a class. People attend, the classes are over, people go their separate ways, maybe they take the classes over again if they feel the need. I imagine other support groups as meeting at regular intervals and members of the group building a rapport over time. Do we get that with the church’s addiction recovery program as well?

    Unknown wrote:

    I have been thinking about alcoholics in the church. I don’t know of any. It seems that any alcoholics and addicts in the church are either less active or fully recovered. Where is the alcoholic in the trenches who wants to go to the bar and church? Is there a place for him? Would he feel welcome on Sunday? Would he even want to be there? There are people in AA who have been sober for decades, but there’s also a handful of people who relapsed yesterday and still go to meetings. I don’t see these types of people on Sunday.

    We place so much emphasis on the WoW and on porn that I believe we unintentionally create a culture where someone struggling with either becomes too embarrassed to attend church. People may judge the person coming into SM that smells like alcohol or smoke. The congregation may accept the drinker/smoker with open arms but that person may feel like they are being judged. Either way that person doesn’t feel welcome and it likely stems from the overemphasis we place on the WoW. I know a few people, excellent people, that don’t attend church because it feels like we’ve made the WoW a requirement for being a fellowcitizen. It’s a shame.

    #307003
    Anonymous
    Guest

    nibbler wrote:


    It makes me wonder whether involving someone’s religion/deity is the big contributing factor or whether social interaction with people in similar situations is the big contributing factor. I hope someone helps me out here but I believe the church’s program is sort of like a class. People attend, the classes are over, people go their separate ways, maybe they take the classes over again if they feel the need. I imagine other support groups as meeting at regular intervals and members of the group building a rapport over time. Do we get that with the church’s addiction recovery program as well?

    According to AA, it is both surrendering to a higher power and losing yourself in service that leads to recovery. People often talk about God. I enjoyed it because the emphasis was on God, as you understand Him. A liberating perspective for someone in a faith crisis. It’s ok if you are questioning what you’ve been taught about God, just trust that there is a God and that he can and will save you from addiction. It doesn’t matter if you doubt everything else about him scriptures, prophets, or even Jesus. Just know that He is there and that He cares. I think most people in a faith crisis are willing to do that. I think most people are open to that idea. Many ex atheists in AA have opened up to that idea out of desperation and found relief.

    Having a real faith crisis causes some people to stay awake at night stressing about the purpose of life. When your whole world view is in doubt, you begin to question everything. “If it’s not true, it doesn’t matter”. A faith crisis could act as a relapse trigger for a recovering addict. Going to a church program might not be comfortable for these people. AA unites alcoholics because they share a single goal: stay sober. At the church program, I imagine the goal is: stay sober and strengthen your testimony, let’s get you temple worthy again.

    nibbler wrote:


    We place so much emphasis on the WoW and on porn that I believe we unintentionally create a culture where someone struggling with either becomes too embarrassed to attend church. People may judge the person coming into SM that smells like alcohol or smoke. The congregation may accept the drinker/smoker with open arms but that person may feel like they are being judged. Either way that person doesn’t feel welcome and it likely stems from the overemphasis we place on the WoW. I know a few people, excellent people, that don’t attend church because it feels like we’ve made the WoW a requirement for being a fellowcitizen. It’s a shame.

    I agree. And what can be done about it? I think the steps in AA could help a lot of people, even those that are not alcoholics. As I sat through some meetings, I thought, there should be AA groups for people who don’t struggle with addiction. Kind of like a self improvement support group. The closest thing to it I’ve seen is Elders Quorum. But that depends on whose teaching the class.

    #307004
    Anonymous
    Guest

    nibbler wrote:

    I think we could do a better job as a church with community support groups. We don’t even have to staff the meetings, all we’d have to do is open our doors and provide a space for organized groups to meet. It’s a service. If we need incentive, doing this would also put the church’s name out there.

    Maybe it’s a regional thing? Like the church in the mission field doesn’t need to open their doors to support groups because other churches are already on top of things but if I were to go to the MorCor I’d see more community at large involvement in church buildings?

    Every time the subject comes up in our area the discussion always turns to “Well, they have to realize they can’t have coffee in the building and there’s no smoking on the property” etc. We have had blood drives in our ward, and the Red Cross does reluctantly agree to no coffee. Other organizations are not so willing to agree. In fact, even though our building (stake center) is well suited to be an emergency shelter in time of disaster and the Red Cross looked at it and loved it, they won’t put us on the list because of no coffee rule. They figure we should be able to give on that a bit in time of disaster (I agree). Likewise, we used to allow a local adult basketball league (which included some members) to use our building for practices and games – until there was a practice one night on the same night as an RS activity and some sisters complained about the men leaving the gym to get drinks across the hall while not wearing shirts (live pornography, I suppose!). The bishop mentioned it to the group leaders and they decided he was being an ass and didn’t need to use our building any more.

    (I’m chuckling to myself because of how I’m picturing this conversation might fair on some other boards. :wtf: )

    Back to the regularly scheduled program, I know our local ARP guy pretty well and he loves the program. I have read through the manual, and as others have pointed out it is the 12 steps with an LDS bent. However, our local Methodist church does the same thing – they have a program with a more religious bent that meets there (Friends of Bill W.).

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