Disputed poll shows LDS support for continuing revelation

I would agree with that because I think that the definition of a prophet is behind why mormons think that way.

Some will use that statistic to paint mormons as mindless drones.

That’s a hateful judgment. And Immature, IMO.

There are many intelligent and independent thinkers that have faith the prophet speaks for the Lord. That is more important than the issue being polled.

I also believe that there are limits that reasonable mormons will go with that support of revelation. They will not blindly follow to the N-th degree.

Continuing revelation is an important part of the faith. It should not be surprising Mormons are faithful to the prophet. Hypothetical extreme scenarios aside, it mostly works for most mormons.

I think it is different than motherhood, but I do think it is easy to say you are fine without the priesthood when you know you can’t have it. I wonder if the prophet said “all worthy people can have the priesthood” if those same women would pass on it.

I think it is different than motherhood, but I do think it is easy to say you are fine without the priesthood when you know you can’t have it. I wonder if the prophet said “all worthy people can have the priesthood” if those same women would pass on it.

It is like motherhood in the sense that men can never be mothers, so we might as well just accept it. It sounds like some of those same women would pass on it and some wouldn’t, but they wouldn’t have an animosity toward you either way.

Priesthood is about power structure and politics within the church.

God doesn’t care if I am ordained or not. I am His child, I can pray for His intervention. God hears his children. Having the priesthood would change nothing about that relationship.

I cannot imagine God withholding blessings due to someone’s “lack of credentials”.

Imagine God saying, “Let that one child die, their prayer was said by someone without proper authority”.

Nope. It doesn’t work that way.

What difference does a priesthood blessing make? IMO, it formalizes a prayer. By needing a second priesthood holder, it gets extended family or the ward community involved. It is a formal admission of need to the larger community.

Can God work miracles through a priesthood blessing? Yes. Can he do the same through a mother’s prayer? Yes.

When I hug my daughter and say a prayer for her safety, is it any different than if I held her hands? Would it be different if I put my hands on her shoulders? Her sides? On her head? Would having been ordained change the power of the prayer? I don’t think so.

Not giving women the priesthood has culturally made them feel less powerful and less able. It has nothing to do with reality. Our individual relationships with God are as strong as we decide to make them. Our power from God is as strong as we allow it to be.

Ordination is church power structure. It has little to do with a relationship with God. I like to think that church leaders have worked on both — church power and a powerful relationship with God. There are times when I wonder.

Now a tangent —

Something that struck me as funny, I was watching a video of John Dehlin interviewing someone. There was a panel of couples set up to ask questions. These were all couples who has either left the church, or were in full FC. Every question from each couple was asked by the man. Each couple may have religiously left the church, but culturally, they were still entrenched. It was weirdly funny to see people discussing issues they had with the church while acting in very LDS cultural ways.

Why are women criticized for wanting something that is traditionally male? It’s all just stupid stupid gender dynamics. Outdated binaries. Go back 30 years and the same would have been said for working women. It’s just dumb. But it is also in Mormonism tied up with the idea that we shouldn’t seek honors. Frankly, I dislike the idea of being in the priesthood because it seems like an organization that is hierarchical with a lot of “yes man” requirements. I wouldn’t work for a company like that, so why would I want to work in a church like that? But it’s probably that way because it has no women in it, so including women could influence it to be more of a true committee-based body. That can also be done with or without the priesthood, but only when we quit equating priesthood office with final say in decision making.

I couldn’t help but think of this song from Free to Be You and Me (when I was thinking about the reaction of those who dislike people wanting something that “belongs” to the other gender.

When my friend William was five years old

He wanted a doll, to hug and hold

“A doll,” said William, “is what I need

To wash and clean, and dress and feed

“A Doll to give a bottle to

And put to bed when day is through

And any time my doll gets ill

I’ll take good care of it,” said my friend Bill

A doll, a doll, William wants a doll

Don’t be a sissy said his best friend Ed

Why should a boy want to play with a doll

Dolls are for girls said his cousin Fred

Don’t be a jerk, said his older brother

“I know what to do,” said his father to his mother

So his father bought him a basketball

A badminton set, and that’s not all

A bag of marbles, a baseball glove

And all the things a boy would love

And Bill was good at every game

Enjoyed them all, but all the same

When Billy’s father praised his skill

“Can I please have a doll now,” said my friend Bill

Then William’s grandma arrived one day

And wanted to know what he liked to play

And Bill said, “Baseball’s my favorite game

I like to play, but all the same

“I’d give my bat and ball and glove

To have a doll that I could love”

“How very wise,” his grandma said

Said Bill, “but everyone says this instead”

So William’s grandma, as I’ve been told

Bought William a doll, to hug and hold

And William’s father began to frown

But grandma smiled, and calmed him down

Explaining, William wants a doll

So when he has a baby someday

He’ll know how to dress it, put diapers on double

And gently caress it to bring up a bubble

And care for his baby as every good father

Should learn to do

William has a doll, William has a doll

‘Cause someday he is gonna be a father, too

Having the priesthood would change nothing about that relationship.

Agreed, but you would have more meetings to attend if you are in any priesthood leadership positions.

Now a tangent —

Something that struck me as funny, I was watching a video of John Dehlin interviewing someone. There was a panel of couples set up to ask questions. These were all couples who has either left the church, or were in full FC. Every question from each couple was asked by the man. Each couple may have religiously left the church, but culturally, they were still entrenched. It was weirdly funny to see people discussing issues they had with the church while acting in very LDS cultural ways.

I keep hearing people that leave say, “I am still Mormon and I always will be.” That is probably true in many ways – this being one of them.

I also wonder if the reason women say ‘they don’t want the priesthood” is simply because they can’t have it. It’s there way of shutting off the women and priesthood discussion at the source. If they don’t want it, then the women and priesthood issue is not an issue for them…

Honestly, I think that is a spiritually mature attitude. The idea of not having authority, power and priesthood can be an attack against a woman’s ego. Letting go of your ego to connect with the divine is a common theme among religions and philosophies of all times and places. “So, I can’t have God’s authority, power and priesthood? That’s ok, I don’t need it anyway.” I can’t really criticize that approach.

Hawkgrrrl wrote: ” But it is also in Mormonism tied up with the idea that we shouldn’t seek honors.”

The typical modesty lecture tells YW that anything that draws attention to themselves is immodest.

Paint religious scenes, work with pre-schoolers, and teach all the piano lessons you want .. but don’t excel in a technical field, and don’t make “real” money.

I think it goes back to losing your ego. I don’t think the message is that you shouldn’t be successful, God wants us to succeed. I think the message is that we shouldn’t tie our self worth to our worldly successes, including positions or offices we hold in the church. That’s not a message that’s unique to mormonism. I don’t think it is a copout for a woman to say she doesn’t want the priesthood, and I don’t think it is always the result of a false sense of modesty. I wonder if the whole priesthood discussion isn’t a tool to teach that principle.

I think the key to this question about women ordination is to ask God if woman can be ordained. I think it is to seek revelation about Heavenly Mother. Does she hold the priesthood? Why? Or why not?

Some other follow up questions: Could you buy into the idea that men can hold the priesthood and women can’t, yet they are still equal partners? Is it possible for men to have authority and power that women don’t and women be sincerely ok with that?

I think for a lot of people, the answer is “yes”, for others it is clearly a “no.” So where does that leave us?

I think it is important to ask why a lot. If we keep asking, “Why can only men have the priesthood? Why can’t women have the priesthood?” How does the church answer these questions? Any good conference talks about this? Or are we left to speculate?