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December 24, 2015 at 3:35 pm #210430
Anonymous
GuestThe following post at Times % Seasons by the President-Elect of Affirmation is wonderful and encouraging, even though it does not predict massive, sudden changes. It gives an excellent, brief history of core issues over the years and describes his interactions with the top leadership of the Church – including after the new handbook policy addition. That description is heartening.
Finally, it is a fascinating look into the heart of someone who readily acknowledges that many will have to leave but who feels divinely called to stay and help things change.
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All Flesh”http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/12/guest-post-all-flesh/ December 24, 2015 at 4:35 pm #307398Anonymous
GuestThanks for posting the URL, Ray. Quote:Church leaders were anxious to meet with me. They were eager to hear my account of the impact of the policy as I had observed it and people’s reactions to the policy as I had heard them. Far from treating me as persona non grata (as some might assume an individual in an “apostate” marriage would be treated) I was received with kindness and respect and as a member of our community of faith. I witnessed genuine empathy and concern, and genuine wrestling. What I can say without the least shadow of doubt is that our leaders see the Church as an inclusive community founded on love, and yearn for all to be a part of it, LGBT people no less than any others. The problem is that they feel constrained by the current doctrine of the Church to maintain certain boundaries with regard to marriage and sexuality. They are as perplexed by the dilemmas faced by LGBT individuals and their families as anyone else.
This has been my assumption along the way.
I think at times many assume that the prophets all know everything and are handing down known facts and policies based on certainty of God’s knowledge.
But God doesn’t seem to always work that way, and at times, let’s even his prophets figure it out as they go along.
I too am cautiously optimistic, but do find the writeup to be encouraging. I still have my opinions about things (that hasn’t changed), but perhaps I can balance my emotions with patience and faith that truth will prevail. The more we see different ways god has made his children, and fears subside about differences, the more we can progress from the fear that holds us back.
I pray the leaders have the courage to push forward for more sudden change. I pray my spirit can be patient as it is not likely to be close to the timetable I wish it would be. But change for good will come, because the leaders will strive to follow love and be empathetic and find a way around policies that they wrestle with.
December 24, 2015 at 5:23 pm #307399Anonymous
Guest(Ray, the link isn’t working….) I’m looking forward to reading this, and my kids home from school will especially need the encouragement. Sounds like this could be the “brotherly and sisterly cooperation” that Richard Bushman talked about in his recent DB interview.
December 24, 2015 at 5:49 pm #307400Anonymous
GuestThanks for letting me know, Ann. I fixed the link. December 29, 2015 at 12:33 am #307401Anonymous
GuestExcellent article. Thanks so much for posting. December 29, 2015 at 5:47 pm #307402Anonymous
GuestYes, Thanks Ray for posting this article. I’m still bothered by the policy, but this helps. I particularly enjoyed this part, and I think it applies to a lot of us StayLDSers: Quote:To my straight brothers and sisters, to the parents and grandparents, the siblings and uncles and aunts and cousins of gay Mormons, I ask: have faith. Stay firm. Hold onto whatever core of your testimony you can cling to. The Church is not perfect. Our commitment to it is nothing more nor less than the acceptance of an invitation to engage with one another in a process of becoming perfected. That process, that faith, will perfect us. It will heal us and save us — not just in some theological sense of finding Heaven above, but in some very root, down-to-earth, fundamental sense of making us whole, physically, emotionally, and spiritually. Things will get better. We will get better, both individually and collectively, if we hold on to each other.
January 2, 2016 at 6:50 am #307403Anonymous
GuestI liked his reference to Elder Packer’s talk. He clearly meant it to say one thing, but had the sentence stayed in, maybe we could have quickly turned it into “the” question. Quote:To me and to many other members of the LGBT community, the end of the closet was a liberation that came from God.
As LGBT people have come out, our coming out has changed us, but, of course, it also changed the people around us. Now our families, friends, co-workers and neighbors know us in ways they never knew us before. They know much more about our character and our choices, and about the contingencies that shape those choices. And that new information has challenged the old paradigm of LGBT people as pathological or sinful or both. With a flood of new data made possible by LGBT people coming out on a mass scale, the old paradigm has crumbled with a rapidity that astonishes. When I came out in the late 1980s, we dreamed of marriage equality, but none of us ever expected to see it in our life times.
A moment that epitomized the clash between the old paradigm and the new data was President Boyd K. Packer’s October 2010 General Conference talk. President Packer, responding to the testimony of gay people themselves that our gayness is an essential part of who we are, that it is part of how God has made us, rhetorically posed the question: Why would our Heavenly Father do that to anyone? Even though that question was edited out of the published version of his talk, I felt it was an excellent question. It was the question, in my opinion, that the experience of LGBT people demands we as a Church answer. As a Church, we have new data; we have an old paradigm that the data just don’t fit; and we have a doctrine that, in light of the new data, demands new light and knowledge from on high.
January 11, 2016 at 6:34 am #307404Anonymous
GuestI’m bumping this up since my kids listened to Elder Nelson’s devotional tonight. I was struck by their distress now more than ever. “Millennials” – at least the ones in our family – are not glibly bucking church authority. They are ripped up about this. The guest post in the link helped.
January 11, 2016 at 1:04 pm #307405Anonymous
GuestAnn wrote:I’m bumping this up since my kids listened to Elder Nelson’s devotional tonight. I was struck by their distress now more than ever. “Millennials” – at least the ones in our family – are not glibly bucking church authority. They are ripped up about this.
The guest post in the link helped.
I didn’t watch the devotional. And just to make sure I understand your recap, are you saying that good TBM youth are struggling to understand this, but so far are not “falling in line”? Would you suggest that it is worth the listen?January 11, 2016 at 3:20 pm #307406Anonymous
GuestYes, it’s worth a listen if you’re up for the shiver of dread that goes through you. My kids are really wondering how this is going to work. They’ve gone to school and work with gay people who’re just like them in every way but one. They hate the labeling, ostracism, and what they perceive as hate and fear coming from the church. The talks – hers and his – went over like lead balloons. The article in Ray’s link is so thought-provoking. And it’s interesting to me that he updated it with a comment about how he’s received a negative reception from
bothends of the spectrum. I told my daughter that that means he’s onto something good. -
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