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Hi everyone. I am an active Utah member with a TBM wife and kids. Grew up in the church, served a mission, married in the temple, had many callings. I have always had questions or little doubts about certain topics, but have brushed them off as “not understood at this time” or explained away by other doctrines. A couple months ago this exploded into major doubts and disbelief when I finally decided to look outside the church for information (and verified a lot of it from official church information). I have talked to my bishop and wife about my need to figure out what I really believe. I’m currently leaning toward believing the church is a fraud with good intentions. I recognize there is a lot of good in the church, but it seems to be mixed with some very damaging doctrines and traditions. I sort of expect to be an active non-believing member, due to my TBM family, but I am trying to keep myself open to whatever truth I can find within or out of the church, including the possibility that the church is divinely established despite its flaws.
Meanwhile, I’m trying to learn from and maybe fit in with the less-orthodox members. I’m not really getting either one of those things at church on Sundays.
Welcome LIP. I’m glad you found us and thanks for introducing yourself.
I respect your opinions and hope we can have open and positive and constructive discussions on the ways to stay in the church.
I personally don’t see the church as a fraud, and I see the good it does for so many families. It is not perfect, it has limitations, but it is true.
I think you will find a variety of opinions with people here on this site. We may be unorthodox to some, but we don’t all fit the mold. So…you should fit in nicely since we all are unique.
Welcome. I look forward to learning from your posts.
Welcome LIP, you have come to the right place. I think you will find many kindred spirits here. Whatever you come to believe about God, the Gospel, the Church, I encourage you to come to it with your own impulses. There are many voices out here in the nether reaches. Each voice thinks they have the ‘right’ view. But what is important is what the right view is for you. And it may change over time, as it has for me. Also, I think it’s very helpful for me to think of the Church as searching just like I am. The Church sees truth in a certain way and acts on it with tremendous devotion. I give the Church leeway to seek its own truth, the same way I seek my own truth. One or both of us may be wrong, but for now, our truth works for each of us.
Welcome to our island. Many here can relate to your feelings and struggles. I found it helpful to separate the church and the gospel. Like Heber, I don’t see the church as any more of a fraud than any other church (and yes, that makes other churches “true” in my mind). The church does teach the gospel of Jesus Christ as it core tenets, like many other churches, and as such has done and will continue to do good. I find I can live the gospel, be an active church member, and ignore the other “stuff” in the church (while understanding that approach doesn’t work for everybody). Good luck in your journey, don’t be a stranger.
Welcome, good to hear from you. I relate to what you say and appreciate that you’re going to try to remain involved in the church. I firmly believe that the church needs voices like yours actively heard. I believe the church is true but not TRUE. For me that means much of the doctrine is symbolic but I grew up believing it was supposed to be literal and I still believe that core leadership wants us to believe it’s literal. My experience is that the church does help some people tremendously and a large number of people find comfort in its teachings. I respect that and it sounds like you do too. On my bad days I feel trapped, lied to, and doubt that God exists.
Hope to hear from you.
LIP…I’m Utah slc guy. Some of us are doing a dinner thing every now and then. If you are close to SLC…come join. Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk
Welcome LIP! Your journey sounds very much like where I started.
Hope you can find support here, I certainly have.
Welcome LIP! I think I could have written much of what you wrote in your intro. I’ve lived the TBM life, but I don’t think I’ve ever been a true believer, although I’ve always tried to avoid anything that was less than faith-promoting, until recently (the past 5 years or so). Now I’ve gone down the rabbit hole and I don’t think I’ll ever see things the way I did before. I’m still outwardly active and faithful, but inwardly I am not even sure what I believe anymore. This is a safe place where you can go to talk about anything that is bothering you. If you’re like me, there are very few people I can talk to in person about these things without causing pain and grief in relationships.
The latest policy (or revelation) on gay marriage really has rocked my world. Up until then I mostly respected the brethren, although I didn’t think they would never make a mistake. Most of my struggles were with Church history (polygamy, polyandry, Book of Mormon historicity, Book of Abraham, etc.), but now I have doubts that we are being led by men of God at all. Or even if God exists.
I hope you find some peace here. There are many good people here with open minds and a variety of unorthodox views that struggle, but make Mormonism work for them. I hope it can work for you too.
Welcome LIP! I’m glad you found us. I can relate to where you are and what you feel, I could have written your intro several years ago.
What I have come to realize is my path is determined by my focus. When I spend my time scrutinizing all the problems I live in frustration. When my efforts are to find peace and higher ground I do much better. I do enjoy the details of history, and I do want to understand everything as well as humanly possible, but I need to know how to frame it in a way that allows my personal state to embrace peace.
Personally I have found much that has been taught in the church that I can hang onto. Symbolism is powerful, I love to look for symbols in everything. Love is the answer, and so much points to it. We get a lot of good, sound advice in the church, and yes a lot of silly stuff that does not even reach me anymore.
Thank you everyone for the welcome, and for your thoughts and encouragement for my journey. I was going to quote some of your replies, but then I realized I wanted to quote all of them, so I’ll just say it’s all valuable and that I feel relieved to be able to associate with like-minded people on amazingly similar journeys. 🙂 Hi, LIP. I’m glad you’re here and hope you’ll enjoy it. There’s so much good reading here and also emotional support. One thing that helped me was to stop looking at Mormonism only and start looking at religion generally. Going to a site like realclearreligion.org (I think?) or the faith channels at Patheos has been educational and comforting. We’re not the only ones with problems. If you have oodles of time – his discussions seem to take forever, especially the intros – I recommend Mormon Matters.
Welcome LIP Ann wrote:
One thing that helped me was to stop looking at Mormonism only and start looking at religion generally. Going to a site like realclearreligion.org (I think?) or the faith channels at Patheos has been educational and comforting. We’re not the only ones with problems. If you have oodles of time – his discussions seem to take forever, especially the intros – I recommend Mormon Matters.In regards to fraud – Religion is almost always exempt from this designation because it often deals with the improvable. To make a legal case of fraud you need do demonstrate that individuals told you something that they knew not to be true in order to get some sort of benefit/gain from you. Therefore, legally speaking religion has had a sort of “buyer beware” attached to it.
I agree with Ann that religion generally has the same sort of issues that occur in our church. We are all just people trying to build meaningful lives and get along the best we can… just like everyone else.
This is a safe place to discuss the issues as we continue our unique journeys forward.
I am a completely active member with a visible calling. I am a believer – but I believe what I believe, which is all over the map / spectrum / scale / whatever. I have seen lots of things differently than those around me for over 40′ years and have become comfortable with that simple fact. I am who I am, and I believe God understands and accepts me as I am. I believe that about you, as well.
Welcome.
Welcome, It’s always good to have new participants on this site. New problems & new opinions & new views & solutions.
My only advice at this point, don’t make any rash decisions that you would want to take back later.
(my fortune cookie message for today.)
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