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Sorry for the thread title. I just chanced upon an article that has a scattershot of things being reported but I wanted to highlight something Elder Eyring said that I liked to see. LDS apostle delivers warning, promise at BYU-Idaho campusQuote:[Bednar] said he visited the newly built Taylor Building on campus with Henry B. Eyring, first counselor of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, and watched as Eyring looked thoughtfully over the new chapel.
“What are you thinking about?” he asked.
Eyring responded, “I am thinking about how much we do for so few and how little we do for so many. The tithing of the people I just visited in South America and from good people all over the world paid for this facility. And most of the people who have made this beautiful facility possible will never see or step foot in a building like this. That is what I am thinking about,” Eyring said.
Elder Bednar’s apparent takeaway was interesting but it’s nice to see a prominent church leader thinking along those lines.
Also, I love talks addressing why church leaders repeat things. It’s so meta.
Thanks for that. I know Eyring is no Uchtdorf, but one of the reasons I hope Monson lives longer is because of his counselors. I sense in Eyring a balance, this quote supports it. Cool thoughts from Eyring. I love the fact that he recognizes that the money given by the saints doesn’t seem to trickle back to them very much….it’s nice to know that he acknowledges that so little of it comes back to the general masses. I think I might’ve been active now had I been able to get counseling at the sensitive period when I felt cast out by my own leaders, membership, etcetera, turned to LDS Social Services to deal with the depression and was told they had no room — were booked solid. Hire another counselor!!! That’s why the gospel doesn’t seem worth the thousands per year in tithing to me right now…
SD
It is good to be reminded that these leaders really do have good hearts and things do impact them and preoccupy their thoughts. I do not envy them with the choices they need to make. I wonder why they agree on the decisions they do. They are not perfect or completely holy men. But, to characterize them as suits who uncaringly run the church as a business and focus only on the bottom line is not the way I see them. They care. (but they still have an organization to run and take their stewardship seriously).
While BKP is not a favorite among many of us here, he also expressed a similar thought during a Priesthood leadership meeting I attended. The year would have been 1987 or so and it was an area leadership meeting help in a Santa Monica CA Stake Center. I heard this with my own ears: He told of visiting a Stake Conference where they had a brand new building. The SP was especially proud of the new Pipe Organ that had been paid for by the members. As they were leaving the Stake Center Elder Packard saw through the fence at the back of the Stake Center a woman hanging wet laundry on a clothes line in the back of her home. BKP asked the SP who that lady was. The SP said it was Sister so and so, a very faithful member of the stake with many kids. BKP then asked the SP if it would not have been better to spend the Pipe Organ money on helping the Sister get a new washer and dryer. After he related this story, he then sheepishly turned around to look at the back wall and said “Maybe I better check to see if you have a Pipe Organ in this building before I tell such a story!” There was no pipe organ. Two thoughts: 1. My first thought was that we probably support much of the rest of the church world as opposed to the other way around. That is, the majority of tithing money probably comes from the US, especially Utah – we have a concentration of members with generally higher incomes. That’s OK with me, I don’t mind sharing the load of building the kingdom even if my share is a bit more.
2. I hang laundry out – it saves us money and, depending on your point of view, it’s better for the environment.
I suspect that some people are put off my the emotion he displays in his addresses, but Elder Eyring was always one of my favorite apostles. I still have a soft place for him in my heart. Thanks for sharing this. It reminds me of positive memories I have in the Church–memories I don’t want to forget. I don’t mean to thread de-rail, but one of my facebook friends also shared a link to the same article. I was feeling pretty good when I was reading it until I got to this:
Quote:“In the authority of the holy Apostleship, I now raise a voice of warning, and I make a solemn promise. If the day ever were to come that
intellectual arrogance,a lack of appreciation, and a spirit of demanding entitlement take root on this campus — among the students, the faculty, the employees, the administration or within the community of Rexburg — then in that day the Spirit of Ricks will be well on the way to being extinguished. And the heavenly influence and blessings that have prospered this institution and the people associated with it will be withdrawn,” Bednar warned. It seems that Elder Bendar has come up with a new catch-phrase to call out the “learned.” Elder Packer used intellectual. Bednar is using the term “intellectual arrogance.”
Quote:“Conversely, as long as
intellectual modesty,humility, gratitude, obedience, and frugality continue to characterize those who learn and serve at Brigham Young University-Idaho, then this university will shine forth ever brighter as a beacon of righteousness and of inspired educational innovation.” I strongly suspect that Elder Bednar would deem me a class A example of intellectual arrogance. In many ways, I’m probably a cautionary tale for why one needs to have “intellectual modesty.”
I don’t know why this hurts me. I thought I was passed this. It just hurts.
I’m not sure how much of a role intellectualism plays into belief but I can imagine it would be pretty easy for someone to call a church member intellectually arrogant for claiming to know things, especially when we tend to take things a step further in claiming that other people are wrong (or less than perfect) in their beliefs. I’ve got to think that intellectual modesty includes some form of humility, and acknowledgement that we don’t know everything. In some respects that goes against our culture of how we tend to bear testimony. Intellectual modesty:
The more I learn, the more I realize how much I don’t know. -Einstein
The more you know the less you understand. -Laozi
I know that I know nothing. -Socrates
I’d hate to think that Bednar is using the phrases intellectual arrogance and intellectual modesty as a different way of saying whether or not someone agrees with the positions of the church/leaders. I can see how it could be read that way, a leader responding to people thinking/reasoning their way out of the church. I think that’s where some of the fear of intellectualism comes from. Consider the perspective of a leader; if the leader sees a person become confident in a newfound knowledge that causes the person to fall away from the church (or disagree with authority) the leader may judge that newfound knowledge to be incorrect, it led someone away from the church. If that person isn’t willing to come back to church they may be seen as intellectually arrogant, having confidence in the arm of the flesh, knowledge that does not have the power to save.
Arrogance exists on both sides, modesty does too. It probably takes a little intellectual arrogance to call someone intellectually arrogant.
university wrote:I don’t mean to thread de-rail, but one of my facebook friends also shared a link to the same article.
No worries there. It’s a part of the story. I love Eyring’s thoughts. At the same time I’m disappointed that another apostle felt the need to issue a warning that heavenly influence will be withdrawn. The world needs people to bless it, not curse it, but this wasn’t a curse so much as it was a warning. Has BYU-I fallen off so bad that they
neededa voice of warning? I believe one of Bednar’s takeaways from Eyring’s comment was that the buildings on campus were purchased with consecrated and sacred funds and this may have been his way of making sure people realized that. Still I wonder if there was an issue that needed to be addressed or if it was a heavy handed approach to make sure the kids don’t develop a sense of entitlement. As a parent I’ve said some crazy stuff to help ward off a sense of entitlement, trying to get out ahead of the curve before a problem was manifest.
Don’t fooled. Bednar is old school, the likes of which we have not seen in the quorum in awhile. Should he ascend to the highest position, which is very likely, the church will be regressing, not progressing. DarkJedi wrote:Don’t fooled. Bednar is old school, the likes of which we have not seen in the quorum in awhile. Should he ascend to the highest position, which is very likely, the church will be regressing, not progressing.
I fear you are right and given his age it isn’t unreasonable to think he could be president at some point. But there is going to be some interaction going both ways. Look at how much has been discussed in the ensign the last 2 years. That has come about from a lot of people saying, “I have questions” or actually leaving. But I could see where it becomes even more conservative and more (most) moderates abandon it – or it could bow to pressures and become more open.Reminds me of a quote someone said on a podcast (and they were quoting someone else). It was something about, “Religions try to make it seem like things never change while they continue to change adapt to the new times”.
I am with DJ on Bednar. Old School and more to come if the years ahead continue. He also loves his apostolic placement. About 5 years ago I read an account of him closing a talk at a Regional Conference with a powerful apostolic blessing on the audience. Everyone was awed. The closing hymn sung, prayer offered, and people stood up and began talking, moving about, etc. Shortly he stood up, grabbed the microphone and told everyone if they didn’t gain some reverence he would rescind the blessing.
Also from the scuttlebutt I hear among YSA kids, BYU-Idaho/Ricks is getting a pride issue of it’s own. They like to assert that they Idaho, is more spiritual, etc then the BYU’s.
I used to have a Bishop who loved to gin us up with “We’re number one” pep talks. I remember realizing one day, if we were number one then somebody had to be number two.
I think our human nature blinds us in those moments. My guess that maybe Bednar’s blindness.
nibbler wrote:I’m not sure how much of a role intellectualism plays into belief but I can imagine it would be pretty easy for someone to call a church member intellectually arrogant for claiming to know things, especially when we tend to take things a step further in claiming that other people are wrong (or less than perfect) in their beliefs.
I’ve never thought about it this way before, but I think this is absolutely correct. Although, I’m not a fan of the term “intellectual arrogance” for anyone. I’d rather rag on ignorance than something with the term “intellectual” any day.
DarkJedi wrote:Don’t fooled. Bednar is old school, the likes of which we have not seen in the quorum in awhile. Should he ascend to the highest position, which is very likely, the church will be regressing, not progressing.
Agreed, which is why my response to his remarks was “ouch!”
Mom3 wrote:About 5 years ago I read an account of him closing a talk at a Regional Conference with a powerful apostolic blessing on the audience. Everyone was awed. The closing hymn sung, prayer offered, and people stood up and began talking, moving about, etc. Shortly he stood up, grabbed the microphone and told everyone if they didn’t gain some reverence he would rescind the blessing.
😯 He would have been perfectly average in the Q12 60-40 years ago. He wouldn’t have been striking in any way back then – but he actually is now. I take comfort in that.
My missionary son once complained about one of the counselors in his mission presidency. The guy was an extreme hard liner. My son said he asked his MP, who was very progressive by MP standards, why he had a guy like that as his counselor. He said he liked to have balance in his counselors, so there was the hard liner and a guy who was more moderate. With that in mind, I suppose it could be said that Bednar brings some balance to the group because the other hard line old schoolers are dying off and it would appear the three newest members are more moderate. If balance is the aim, the only really scary thing is that Bednar has such a good shot at the first chair. 😯 True DJ, but you could also look at it as one “balancing” something is also keeping the center balance of the group from moving. Removing an outlier CHANGES the balance. It is something we have heard quite a few times as some on the fence folks have talked about leaving over the policy change. Some have combated and even pleaded not to do this as what it leaves is a church that is predominantly even MORE hardliners.
From what I have heard, it seems that happened with Sunstone and Dialogue a few decades ago. I think it was Elder Oaks that commented in general conference that people should not be listening to those types of voices – which was a bit ironic in that he had even published an article in Dialogue in the past. These groups quickly became void of most folks on the TBM’ish side of the scale and much more “dissident”.
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