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I no longer believe. I am holding on to a small hope that the church is where I should be despitemany problems with it. It would be nice if I could believe the church is true becauseof what I have learned, not despitewhat I have learned. My wife is an orthodox believer. My teenage kids are headed that way. When I talk to my wife about what I have learned, we end up fighting. I feel like my soul is being ripped apart. I imagine myself being alone. Maybe I’ll live in my truck for a while. That sounds silly, but that’s how grim it appears sometimes.
I’m sorry Shawn. I have been in a very similar place, including the wife part. I do have small hope the church is true, but it is very small and I really don’t believe it is. I think that’s the toughest part of the faith crisis. However, I do believe the church is not evil and is in fact good and is therefore as true as other churches. While I disagree with some policies and dislike some of what has happened in the past, I try to hold on because of the good that is here.
Shawn…I’m sorry, buddy. I know you are not alone in that situation, there are more and more families like that.
One thing you may want to remind yourself is that other families can find ways to make it work, despite the challenges. You can too. Focus on the family relationships first and foremost…put them first in your life. Sounds like it will be even easier now that you don’t have to worry about putting church or god first…just put your family first. What is important to them becomes what is important to you. Love them more deeply. Cling on to them, whatever it takes.
There are ways to make lots of different situations and family circumstances work. But it takes love and service.
I know those feelings. Hang in there. Shawn wrote:When I talk to my wife about what I have learned, we end up fighting. I feel like my soul is being ripped apart.
Shawn, I’m sorry. Here’s a question: Is your wife interested in religion and/or history in general? I try to talk with my husband about things I’ve learned or concluded in a context that he would also be interested in.Even so, we often reach a point where he’ll just say that he’s done talking for now. I don’t know if it’s because he’s distressed, worried about where I’m going to end up, or if he’s frustrated that I don’t often agree with him.
Good point, Ann. I think it is good to find and build on common ground, not try to squeeze the uncommon ground into consensus. If you look at a Venn diagram…it may be good to recognize how much overlap there is or isn’t.
Shawn – I am sorry for your pain. Is there anything good you still find in your wife? She is more scared than you are. If you care for her because she is of value you will find a road for both of you. I don’t know if these will help – but they might
http://boydpetersen.com/2016/02/21/what-to-do-if-someone-you-know-is-going-through-a-faith-crisis/ ” class=”bbcode_url”> http://boydpetersen.com/2016/02/21/what-to-do-if-someone-you-know-is-going-through-a-faith-crisis/ http://boydpetersen.com/2016/02/21/what-to-do-if-someone-you-know-is-going-through-a-faith-crisis/ ” class=”bbcode_url”> http://boydpetersen.com/2016/02/21/what-to-do-if-someone-you-know-is-going-through-a-faith-crisis/ The book Planted by Patrick Mason may also help. It’s at Deseret Book. Written from a fully active believing member.
Good luck
Shawn, I’m so sorry, but I think I can identify with what you are going through, including your inability to talk to your wife about how you feel without causing more hurt and pain. DarkJedi wrote:I do have small hope the church is true, but it is very small and I really don’t believe it is. I think that’s the toughest part of the faith crisis.
I think I feel this way too, although I’m pretty bitter right now and am having a hard time seeing the good in the corporate church, although I can still see it in individuals and at the local level.
Shawn wrote:I imagine myself being alone. Maybe I’ll live in my truck for a while. That sounds silly, my that’s how grim it appears sometimes.
I get this too. I feel alone in my family too. But I love them all (and they love me too, even though it seems that their love for me is conditional upon my belief and faithfulness).
Heber13 wrote:One thing you may want to remind yourself is that other families can find ways to make it work, despite the challenges. You can too. Focus on the family relationships first and foremost…put them first in your life. Sounds like it will be even easier now that you don’t have to worry about putting church or god first…just put your family first. What is important to them becomes what is important to you. Love them more deeply. Cling on to them, whatever it takes.
Great advice from Heber. I also agree with Heber and Ann to find common ground (values, hobbies, good memories, etc.) outside of Church doctrine or culture that you can build upon with your spouse and children. This is still really hard to do in the state you are in if you are like me, but it makes the relationships so much better.
You are not alone. Hang in there!
FaithfulSkeptic wrote:Shawn, I’m so sorry, but I think I can identify with what you are going through, including your inability to talk to your wife about how you feel without causing more hurt and pain.
I agree. I am realizing much of my depression is due to this and I know I will have to come out (at least a bit) to resolve some of that dissonance.
FaithfulSkeptic wrote:DarkJedi wrote:I do have small hope the church is true, but it is very small and I really don’t believe it is. I think that’s the toughest part of the faith crisis.
I think I feel this way too, although I’m pretty bitter right now and am having a hard time seeing the good in the corporate church, although I can still see it in individuals and at the local level.
I agree. I have much more bitterness of things going on above the ward level, but at the ward level I have calmed down a bit. I mainly vent here (and I feel I do a bit too much). My ward has a few hardline TBM’ers, but many are just good people trying their best. I have had 3 good bishops in a row that I am friends with. I know they will be distressed when I come out, but I don’t think they will cut contact. I have been a very serving member for so many years even the hardliners will have a hard time being mean to me. I hope?
FaithfulSkeptic wrote:Shawn wrote:I imagine myself being alone. Maybe I’ll live in my truck for a while. That sounds silly, my that’s how grim it appears sometimes.
I get this too. I feel alone in my family too. But I love them all (and they love me too, even though it seems that their love for me is conditional upon my belief and faithfulness).
I don’t see myself living in my truck. I do worry if a divorce will happen. I am not happy that my parents (and inlaws) will feel pain. This is a bit why I am thinking about only coming part way out and may keep some feelings/lack of belief to myself. I do have some hope that this jarring could have a positive impact on my marriage, but I am not putting much stock in that as I don’t want to be let down.
FaithfulSkeptic wrote:Heber13 wrote:One thing you may want to remind yourself is that other families can find ways to make it work, despite the challenges. You can too. Focus on the family relationships first and foremost…put them first in your life. Sounds like it will be even easier now that you don’t have to worry about putting church or god first…just put your family first. What is important to them becomes what is important to you. Love them more deeply. Cling on to them, whatever it takes.
Great advice from Heber. I also agree with Heber and Ann to find common ground (values, hobbies, good memories, etc.) outside of Church doctrine or culture that you can build upon with your spouse and children. This is still really hard to do in the state you are in if you are like me, but it makes the relationships so much better.You are not alone. Hang in there!
Same to both of you. You are not alone. There are some that never come here and go through this. There are lurkers on this site that are also working through this.Thanks for your support everyone! DarkJedi, I’m trying to believe the church is good, but I don’t see it that way right now. I actually have to restrain myself from typing stuff that would break this forum’s rules of etiquette
Heber, I do believe families can find ways to make it work. If I continue to believe in god, then I want to put god first. This doesn’t mean I would want to break up my family over a disagreement regarding faith. It does mean that if god leads me away from the LDS church, and my wife gives an ultimatum that I must stay in the church in order to stay with her, then I may choose to leave the church and let her go her way. However, god has not directed me to leave the church.
Ann, I really think my wife isn’t interested in discussing church history. Her attitude seems to be “Whatever the church and prophets did was somehow right.” In my opinion, she doesn’t objectively consider some facts. That’s okay. I don’t want to change her. I don’t want to damage her faith and cause her grief.
mom3, yes there are many good things I see in my wife! I just read that post by Boyd Peterson and I like it. I can see how my wife might be more scared than I am, since it “can seem like the end of the world because we Mormons put so much emphasis on the eternal nature of families.” I just don’t believe temples are of god
Shawn I’m sorry for your pain but I have gone through similar things that you are experiencing right now. For me it was mostly about Historical things so I decided to just take the church for what it is right now . A good church full of good people trying to do their best. I focused on the Bible and not the BoM and D&C . I loved my family more & more really poured it on and somehow I got through it . I acknowledged Joseph Smith was a prophet but he was not without his problems as is with many of the prophets !!!! He was only a man and a man with issues !! The church has many good things about it I.e. clean living bringing Christ into your life daily scripture family togetherness etc etc etc look for the good. Joseph Smith said ” The fundamental principles of our religion is the testimony of the apostles and prophets concerning Jesus Christ , that he died , was buried, and rose again the third day , and ascended up into heaven and all other things are only appendages to these , which pertain to our religion “. I am so sorry Shawn. I know that this has been a long hard road for you. I know that people see the world differently. I watch a historical movie with my wife and I have to remind her of what war was going on and who we were fighting against. To her, the Nazis are just not relevant to her life. Similarly, I believe that for some the church seems to work in their lives. Church history is irrelevant for some unless it helps them bolster their faith in something that gives them so much certainty and comfort. I can understand that.
DarkJedi wrote:I do have small hope the church is true, but it is very small and I really don’t believe it is.
I am coming to see churches as religious clubs. This is not necessarily a bad thing. They provide great support both as a framework to build your life on and a network of fellow believers to lean on. For some people at some times in their lives they work amazingly well. For some people at some times in their lives they do not seem to work well. For these people in the latter group, the sense of inclusion and belonging that they once felt may turn into a sense of ostracism, isolation, and loneliness.
For me this exercise in StayingLDS has been to acknowledge my LDSness while also exploring the spirituality that I have in common with most of humanity. It is as if I have lived abroad for a long period of time. I still love my people and feel a kinship with them and their ways – but I have also been exposed to other peoples and other ways of doing things that are just as valid. These experiences have marked me – making me seem less loyal and zealous. I become a man with one foot in two different worlds… hopefully the time will come when I can act as a bridge between them.
I am right there with you brother. It is very hard. I was a TBM drinking the kool-aid with only a few doubts on my shelf until last year. The cracks on the shelf began to grow and I finally let myself research objectively with an open mind. I am blown away with how different I now see the church and the world. My eyes are now open. My DW has not come with me on my journey and is terrified by where I will end up. My kids are heading down the TBM path as we have pointed them there. I worry that they will find out later in life and that makes me sad.
I am trying to figure out if I stay or go. Does the family go with me, etc…
This forum and others (NOM), lots of blogs and many hours of podcasts have allowed me to thing and converse in my mind with others going through the same thing. Their advice has been awesome. I will repeat what I have learned.
Go slow. Go painfully slow. Don’t say “I don’t believe” to anyone who is not there with you. Just speak of your confusion and desire to learn the truth as it will win in the end anyway.
The hardest part for me is the kids. The church was great for me. I am who I am today because of it. I want great things for my kids but I am not sure I can perpetuate the stories.
Thus my SLDS name. It is the village. I am here for now. I can’t force others to leave with me they have to take their own path.
SI me who have gone before us have stayed and found peace. Some have left with families in tact, taking spouse, parents, and siblings. Others have destroyed families with irreconcilable differences.
Go slow, love your wife, ask for her support and guidance.
jgaskill wrote:Shawn I’m sorry for your pain but I have gone through similar things that you are experiencing right now. For me it was mostly about Historical things so I decided to just take the church for what it is right now . A good church full of good people trying to do their best.
I have tried to focus on the what the church is now and let go of of the past. I’ve tried it for a couple years or so. Alas, I have not been able to separate the current church from church history. Things from the past keep coming up.
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