BYU or Michigan

Hi Dax,

Unfortunately No. We are living in Michigan and University of Michigan is about 20 min. away from our house. That was the major reason she has applied to the school so that she can commute from home (we can not pay for the dorm).

I think she does not want to turn down Michigan because of some prestige (in this area) comes with the name but the price and the reputation for hard-core party school are hard to ignore. I’ve heard the horror story, but the students body looks very nice and decent during the day. Our daughter is very obedient and have never done anything very bad. But she may be changed by the peer pressure.

During the time of away from church, our two older sons have gone so wild and completely swallowed up by the world that DH and I were in shock. I did not know our sons were that weak. They were good when they were teens though. Because of the experience, I know how powerful the influence of other young adults is. Yet, I want her to choose based on the program…….. I wish she can choose both, excellent program and high moral standard (and affordable tuition). Perhaps University of Utah may be one of those schools.

Thank you for your two cents. Did you go to UofU?

My wife went to BYU as a Lutheran & loved it. (She was baptised the next year.)

My daughter went to the U of U & loved it.

I think I would of had a difficult time at a Church school.

I like diverse viewpoints. I’m not sure you get them at BYU.

I will say I’m not sure where the idea that she can’t take whatever she wants at BYU comes from – there are degree maps and requirements, but outside of the requirements she certainly can take whatever she wants. My two oldest both changed majors while at BYU (my daughter more than once) – there is plenty of opportunity there.

After looking at a few degree maps for BYU I see some common required elements:

4 credit hours studying the Book of Mormon

2 credit hours studying the New Testament

2 credit hours studying the Doctrine and Covenants

6 credit hours studying religious electives

14 required credit hours. It looks like each religion course is 2 credit hours? It appears that the goal is to have students enrolled in a religion course nearly every semester. Maybe not that big of a deal since I attended institute every semester while I went to college and that didn’t count towards my degree.

By comparison, and this is digging deep to remember, I had to take 3 credit hours of religion (one course) or alternatively I could have gone the philosophy route and passed the same requirement.

Another thing I remember from the college days, there was an established template for freshmen. There wasn’t any wiggle room and it was a public university. You pretty much had to take certain courses as a freshman to be “on track” to graduate. In those days they also had the concept of being accepted into a university but still having to apply to gain admission into one of the colleges within the university. Your admission depended on your grades in those courses you had to take as a freshman. If there’s one thing that universities excel at it’s creating rules.

That’s me being long winded in saying that any university can be rigid when it comes to mapping out a degree. It’s not that they are even being intentionally rigid, the course mappings exist to help people graduate as soon as possible. I’m sure we were always free to take what we wanted but that might mean being in school for a few more years.

Yikes, back on subject.

Could your daughter attend BYU for a semester or two to feel things out and then transfer to Michigan if necessary? Before going that route you’d want to carefully research what would transfer over from BYU to Michigan . Even after someone tells you take what they say as the best possible case and assume that reality will be something less than that, perhaps far, far less. Still, it’s an option.

Our bishop said that was perfectly fine and we could believe whatever we wanted.

Someone that’s been through the process can correct me. The initial ecclesiastical endorsement is obtained from the local bishop but once enrolled all ecclesiastical endorsements come from the BYU bishop. With the nature of callings you never know when a hard line guy might make an appearance.

From someone whose name is “university” perhaps I should comment? 🙂 😳

I didn’t go to BYU. I didn’t want to even as a TBM. I can’t quite recall the reasons why, but I believe it had something to do with me not liking the culture of BYU, and that’s even before I was aware of some of their aspects of how they enforce the Honor Code. For me, I’m so, so, grateful I didn’t attend. I can’t imagine going through a faith crisis while attending that school. Just my opinion, but I think it’s one of the worst possible environments to endure a faith crisis as a Mormon. BYU is very orthodox in its rules and expectations. Needing an ecclesiastical endorsement in order to stay in school and be able to stay in your housing…worrying about your peers reporting you or telling on you for things (which students are encouraged to do)…having so much on the line when you’re questioning your faith…and then not having much of an option to transfer schools because your credits aren’t accepted at other institutions…I know for me, I was never supposed to attend BYU. I have heard accounts by people who had a faith crisis while attending and it was a nightmare for them.

I’ll be honest, I’m not really a fan of BYU. I guess in this paragraph I’ll just write the negatives I have about BYU and then list the positives after. I’ve already talked about the Honor Code and the potential risks there. I also don’t want to overgeneralize BYU as a whole, because I think in many regards it is a great institution, but I do believe that institution of higher education should serve as a place for people to learn critical thinking skills—to learn how to question things, especially your own beliefs and prejudices, and be exposed to other ways of thinking and living, and I’m not saying that BYU doesn’t do that, but they have a line which they can’t cross. I think this is especially true in studies in the liberal arts or social sciences…like Art. I do think, though, that this issue doesn’t affect more career-oriented majors, like health professions, business, etc. But for the fields of study which grapple more with the issues of humanity, I personally don’t think BYU offers the full experience…And yes, there have been excellent intellectuals who have come from BYU and I don’t want to generalize or degrade BYU entirely. I think it’s a great school, in some ways. I just think some of its programs are hindered by its need to put a faith-promoting spin on some of the fields, or hold back from some conversations, and being surrounded by a similar demographic of people while in that environment.

Positives for BYU? I know people who love that school. They do offer a high caliber of education and a wide variety of programs, even if they have their limits. And I know people who grew up outside of Utah and absolutely LOVE the environment. There can be real benefits to being around people with similar values, for some people more than others. And they really do have some great programs…also, you don’t really have to worry about the Frat Parties and lots of students influencing your daughter to do drink, etc. (even though there are people who do break the rules). I think the fact that’s a dry campus and that (most) people don’t drink can be enough of a positive reason to attend for someone who doesn’t want to be around that. The networking at BYU is great, as well. They’ve got that on lock. But I think, ultimately, it’s up to your daughter and what fits for her. What are her most important priorities in her university?

Also: I know plenty of liberal Mormons who are happy there. I say “liberal Mormon” meaning either 1.) They have liberal political beliefs but are TBM or 2.) Don’t follow some church commandments or think that every little thing the Church says is from God but still have an orthodox testimony of the restoration and the Priesthood authority, and they’re all having a great time. There are more liberals down at BYU than one would think. Yes, there is the pressure to get married down there, but from what I hear, the ladies outnumber the men, so the pressure is more on the men. And I’ve heard BYU-I pressure to marry is much, much worse.

I attended University of Nevada Las Vegas and then went to BYU for some Spanish credits over a summer.

I lived with my parents in Las Vegas and commuted to classes. For most of my time I was able to keep my class load on Tue & Thu. I worked and attended school. Most of my social interaction was with friends that I had known in high school and my singles ward. UNLV also has an on campus LDS institute of religion. I am sure that there were many sordid things happening behind the scenes at student parties and the like but that just wasn’t my scene.

At BYU, I lived in some off campus (but BYU approved housing) apartments. It was like living with my singles ward (complete with the ever present focus of finding “the one”). In a way it was a real college experience. I was away from home, meeting new people. In other ways it was strangely not free/paternalistic. Incidentally, all my BYU credits did transfer to UNLV but that might be somewhat easier because they are part of the same region.

I personally have wondered if I shouldn’t have started out at a community college to save money and then transfer to the larger university after the first year or two.

Just one person’s experience.

What are your daughter’s academic goals? Michigan is probably more highly respected than BYU for many programs, but not all. If she is interested in a bachelors degree and no graduate degree then from an academic respect it may not matter. Likewise, what are her employment goals? Each school will have strong relationships with some companies and not others. Michigan might have honors dorms where there isn’t as much partying and more studying.

Is one school better financially for your family? Aftdr doing the math and subtracting all we spend on my daughter now – like dance lessons, piano lessons, car gas, unlimited food, etc we figure it will cost about $600 per month for my daughter to live on campus in a respectable honors dorm.

My wife and I both graduated from BYU and it was a good fit for us. I wouldn’t go there now, faith crisis and all. I went to a liberal school on the east coast for my masters degree. I loved it there too but it was difficult for to adjust to expectations that I study in groups on Sundays. I was the only mormon in my program and I did feel left out socially sometimes because alcohol was everywhere. However I would go there again. I met a very diverse group of people and loved it and made many friends. We had thanksgiving at our house each year and invited about international students who had never experienced thanksgiving and it was so much fun.

My daughter graduates high school in 2 months. She got accepted at BYU no scholarship and all instate Arizona schools with tuition scholarships. She decided on an instate school that is probably not as academically rigorous as BYU because she said she doesn’t want to be surrounded by Mormons 24×7 and because it’s closer to home. This school has a strong Institute program if she decides to attend.

Ultimately it depends on the experience your daughter wants and your financial needs.

Thank you everyone who has taken time to respond to me.

My daughter has chosen Michigan over BYU.

We made matrics and scored all the criteria points and Michigan scored slightly higher. Then, she went to Heavenly Father. According to her, the God did not care whichever she chose….(parents cared….).

She has to decline talent award and research assistantship from BYU. That is a bomber for her parents.

She may be risking her great opportunity in increasing her testimony, but she also feels that she does not belong to a marriage promoting institution.

She has neither a skinniest waist (she is just right!) nor the perfect complection. She has a wonderful personality with multiple talents. But those are probably not good enough to be asked for a date. One of the most positive aspect of going to BYU is a marriage opportunity, but that is also the most negative aspect for her.

At Michigan, she does not have to be gorgeous. She just have to focus on course works which she really wants to do.

Michigan also has international reputation while BYU has reputation mainly in US, although it depends on a field.

So, we weighted pros and cons and researched and talked with so many people. And we were so exhausted thinking too much!

But the greatest reason to go to Michigan is that she is not ready to leave a nest and she has a freelance work she needs to complete before she goes to anywhere.

But the price is a lot more than BYU. We will just try for this coming fall to see how it goes and adjust if things don’t work.

Everyone who has given us suggestions, insights, and examples, I sincerely appreciate your inputs which has been so helpful!

Thank you, thank you, and thank you so much!